Stressed A. Borellii sp. Opal male

[Uphoria]

Other than a mystery parameter, I'm at a loss.
The sponge that you use to clean your glass, has that ever been in contact with soaps?

Nope. It's a sponge made for aquariums that has never been in contact with anything but the tank.

The other thing I was just thinking about was that maybe because it was a new tank and hadn't seasoned caused issue. The nitrogen cycle was established due to used media but otherwise it was all new and since Apistos can be sensitive to that sort of thing combined with maybe the stress of the community was just too much for him.

I just really don't know what else it could have been. I suppose I don't know my GH, KH, or TDS. Maybe I'll bring in a sample to my LFS and get those tested just to have the answer.

 

[Apistonaut]

Nope. It's a sponge made for aquariums that has never been in contact with anything but the tank.

The other thing I was just thinking about was that maybe because it was a new tank and hadn't seasoned caused issue. The nitrogen cycle was established due to used media but otherwise it was all new and since Apistos can be sensitive to that sort of thing combined with maybe the stress of the community was just too much for him.

I just really don't know what else it could have been. I suppose I don't know my GH, KH, or TDS. Maybe I'll bring in a sample to my LFS and get those tested just to have the answer.

It's possible it could have been wildly hard water, but I doubt it was truly high enough to affect him. Your pH doesn't suggest high KH.

I'm sorry about the loss. It's incredibly frustrating without an answer. You may have had ammonia spikes from an incomplete cycle once you added fish, even though you didn't detect any at the times of collection. You mentioned it was a very young tank, <1-3 weeks? There is a "seasoned" coefficient when talking about stability, but I would stress that your nitrogen cycle wasn't as robust as you may have observed from testing.

I think once your nitrogen cycle is going and barring any fungal, parasitic and bacterial infections, it's tough to kill an Apistogramma in peaceful conditions, particularly when kept solo like yours. I've (shamefully) kept a previous male at 69f for a couple of weeks before noticing a failed heater, suffered a large bout of ich (Apistogramma don't seem to be very vulnerable unless stressed), treated with methylene blue, strange patent protected cyanobacteria treatments, all kinds of abusive things... He lived a full and obese 4.5 years in captivity. I've since come a long way in aquarist husbandry.

I think I am leaning towards ammonia spikes in which fish from southeast Asia are more resilient to, like your Gourami. During feeding, you may have had a few hours of windows where Ammonia could have risen as high as ~1ppm.

 

[Uphoria]

It's possible it could have been wildly hard water, but I doubt it was truly high enough to affect him. Your pH doesn't suggest high KH.

I'm sorry about the loss. It's incredibly frustrating without an answer. You may have had ammonia spikes from an incomplete cycle once you added fish, even though you didn't detect any at the times of collection. You mentioned it was a very young tank, <1-3 weeks? There is a "seasoned" coefficient when talking about stability, but I would stress that your nitrogen cycle wasn't as robust as you may have observed from testing.

I think once your nitrogen cycle is going and barring any fungal, parasitic and bacterial infections, it's tough to kill an Apistogramma in peaceful conditions, particularly when kept solo like yours. I've (shamefully) kept a previous male at 69f for a couple of weeks before noticing a failed heater, suffered a large bout of ich (Apistogramma don't seem to be very vulnerable unless stressed), treated with methylene blue, strange patent protected cyanobacteria treatments, all kinds of abusive things... He lived a full and obese 4.5 years in captivity. I've since come a long way in aquarist husbandry.

I think I am leaning towards ammonia spikes in which fish from southeast Asia are more resilient to, like your Gourami. During feeding, you may have had a few hours of windows where Ammonia could have risen as high as ~1ppm.

My local tap I know is relatively soft already, I just don't know the parameters exactly.

I know Gourami are very hardy. But what about the Neo shrimp, Ramshorn Snail, Ember Tetras and Pygmy Cory? Wouldn't they have been more sensitive to this potential spike as well? Especially the shrimp?

At the time he died the new setup would have been 3 weeks old. I suppose it is possible but along with used filter media and hardscape with Stability being dosed as if it were a new tank I am skeptical of this. In the period before he died, I was feeding mostly live daphnia and worms so from my understanding the chances of an ammonia spike after live food is unlikely. I also feed very slowly, especially pellet or flake, and let the fish eat everything before adding more because the tetras will only eat in the middle. Anything that makes it to the bottom is quickly taken care of by the Cory and shrimp and the gourami often do quite a lot of clean up as well.

In a previous setup I got shrimp too early in the cycle due to bad advise from a LFS and I had spikes due to overfeeding, the shrimp were very clearly not okay and died quickly before I knew what was going on so I am familiar with the signs. I am not writing it off completely but there are just too many factors speaking against it for me to feel confident that this is why.

I do appreciate your insight and sharing your experiences too. It's helpful to make me really think through the possibilities.

 

[Apistonaut]

I know Gourami are very hardy. But what about the Neo shrimp, Ramshorn Snail, Ember Tetras and Pygmy Cory? Wouldn't they have been more sensitive to this potential spike as well? Especially the shrimp?

At the time he died the new setup would have been 3 weeks old. I suppose it is possible but along with used filter media and hardscape with Stability being dosed as if it were a new tank I am skeptical of this. In the period before he died, I was feeding mostly live daphnia and worms so from my understanding the chances of an ammonia spike after live food is unlikely. I also feed very slowly, especially pellet or flake, and let the fish eat everything before adding more because the tetras will only eat in the middle. Anything that makes it to the bottom is quickly taken care of by the Cory and shrimp and the gourami often do quite a lot of clean up as well.

Ammonia spike in a new tank can be a sure thing. Live foods can indeed introduce ammonia, just like any other organic matter.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of your nitrogen cycle.
Uneaten food turns to ammonia (no matter how slowly introduced).
Eaten food turns to waste, which turns to ammonia.
Waste consumed by shrimp turns to waste, which turns to ammonia.

Animals only take the useful nutrient and calorie rich things out of food.

I understand your fish eat all of the food, but their waste produces about the same amount of ammonia as uneaten food by mass. Shrimp eating waste produce just that, waste.

None of these animals consume ammonia from food/waste and store it in their body. It has to go somewhere. Their waste is not sterilized of nitrogen.

The only thing that removes it are colonies of nitrifying bacteria, which are immature and have low bandwidth in a new tank.

As to why your other fish might have endured better, who knows?

Your feeding cadence is probably just fine, it's my opinion that your colonies of bacteria are immature.
I'm sure there's another wonderful suggestion to why your Apistogramma died.

FYI Corys should not be eating waste and algae. They need to consume high protein sinking foods. I'm sure you meant that, just wanted to make sure.

 

[Apistonaut]

Also, Seachem Stability might have incredibly dilute levels of bacteria sold in a big jug to better seperate you from your money. Other products are basically the equivalent of sewage water and don't require much use at all in 1oz containers.

Stability on the other hand asks you to use about 4 oz of the stuff over the course of a week just for a 20 gallon tank. This is from Seachems FAQ on Stability:

I have finished the suggested 7-day dosing, however, my tank is still not fully cycled. Why?
A: Since every tank will cycle differently, it is difficult for us to give an exact time frame as to when your tank will be fully cycled. However, generally most tanks are cycled within 4-6 weeks.

 

[Mike Wise]

Any bacteria supplement is only as good as it was treated after production. High/low temperatures while being shipped, stored and sold, as well as age can affect it's potency. I haven't used them for decades. Water squeezed from a sponge and cycled through the new tank's filter system has always worked for me ... and it's free!

 

[Uphoria]

Any bacteria supplement is only as good as it was treated after production. High/low temperatures while being shipped, stored and sold, as well as age can affect it's potency. I haven't used them for decades. Water squeezed from a sponge and cycled through the new tank's filter system has always worked for me ... and it's free!

I used the Stability in addition to using all used filter media and hardscape transferred over. I knew that all had the bacteria I needed but wanted to be extra cautious that there was ENOUGH bacteria for the larger tank right away.

Since the fish was clearly not thriving the whole time, my parameters have been stable, and all the other fish and shrimp are fine, I’m confused why my nitrogen cycle is the main culprit. It just doesn’t line up to me but maybe I’m being naive.

 

[Apistonaut]

I used the Stability in addition to using all used filter media and hardscape transferred over. I knew that all had the bacteria I needed but wanted to be extra cautious that there was ENOUGH bacteria for the larger tank right away.

Since the fish was clearly not thriving the whole time, my parameters have been stable, and all the other fish and shrimp are fine, I’m confused why my nitrogen cycle is the main culprit. It just doesn’t line up to me but maybe I’m being naive.

It’s just my concern, not anyone else’s. Like I said I’m sure there’s a far more intelligent explanation than what I can come up with. I just see a 3 week old tank and the lightbulb ticked. Hoping for the best!