My Apistogramma borellii

[Yoannikko]

Hey everyone,

So, last week an error was made while removing spammers from the forums. My account was temporarily banned and the topic I had created was deleted... I tried to see if it could be restored, but it's not going to be possible, which is the reason why I'm starting this new topic to catalogue the evolution of my Apistos.

It's been a little over two weeks since I put my female and 3 remaining fry in my 57L Fluval Flex softwater tank and, I have to say, they seem to be doing fantastic ! Even though I was told that pure RO was fine for my fish, I had never tried it before, and so I was a bit aprehensive. But my fears were clearly unfounded. The female is pretty active, but also loves to hang out among the roots of the big piece of wood. The fry do still hide in and under the leaves quite a bit. But they also seem to have put on some weight since I've introduced them to this tank, and have become much more confident. They've also started "play-fighting" among themselves at times. It's pretty funny/cool to watch them grow.
And at dinner time, they all come out as soon as I approach the tank and/or put my pincers in the water. The fry don't directly take food from the pincers yet, like their mother does, but they will hang out close to it and wait for me to release their food.

Tank :

Mom and two fry :

Third fry :

And the juvenile male, which is temporarily housed in a 20L tank (standard dimensions) is also doing well. He is not all that colourful yet, especially compared to his father (RIP), but I hope he will colour-up as he grows.

Juvenile male :

Father :

 

[Yoannikko]

Hello,

So, I finally received my ECT/TDS meter in the mail yesterday. It's an Arka MyAqua TDS/EC/Temp meter. Although, only yesterday I realized that they made a 4-in-1 TDS/EC/pH/Temp meter for not much more money... Oh well, guess I'll get by with this one for now.

Anyway, I took measurements of my tanks after calibrating with the included solution. This tank is sitting at 48 uS/cm, so not bad for A. borellii if I'm not mistaken.
The 20L which houses my juvenile male, which is filled with remineralized (~4 GH) RO water and has a base layer of Tropica Aquarium Soil is around 250 uS/cm. I'll have to get that down a bit before moving him.

Good news n°2, I visited a fish shop not too far from where I live yesterday, that specializes in freshwater and seawater (not too common around here). They had a few display tanks when entering, incl. a few shallows, a paludarium and a few saltwater tanks (one had 3 sea horses in it). Anyway, I asked them if they took fish in from customers, and they said that, yes it would be possible. So the plan is to give them my three fry in a few weeks, along with the mother if possible, and just keep the one juvenile male, which would move into this tank.

 

[Ben Rhau]

So, I finally received my ECT/TDS meter in the mail yesterday. It's an Arka MyAqua TDS/EC/Temp meter. Although, only yesterday I realized that they made a 4-in-1 TDS/EC/pH/Temp meter for not much more money... Oh well, guess I'll get by with this one for now.

If it's any consolation, I've had both a EC/TDS meter and a Hanna combo EC/TDS/pH meter, and I ended up getting rid of the combo meter. EC/TDS alone is fast and robust. pH measurements take longer than I expected to stabilize, and maintenance of the probe is a bit of a pain. I think the meter you have is probably more useful.

For me, having a pH meter was useful for keeping Parosphromenus, which live and breed in very low pH water. It was necessary to understand how to keep the pH low (which is harder than I thought). But for apistos, I don't think it's really necessary.

 

[Yoannikko]

Hello Ben,

Sorry, I thought I had replied to you before, but I guess not... In any case, thanks for your input !
I think I will probably buy a pH-meter at some point, as I would like to measure this parameter (even if only for my own peace of mind), but yeah, not too fussed about it right now. The fish look healthy and are active, and I think that is really all that matters, anyway/

 

[Yoannikko]

Hello everyone,

So, tomorrow I'm finally rehoming my female Apisto + 3 fry, a local fish shop having agreed to take them in. They will not be able to sell them, but will put them in display tanks and/or in charity tanks they sometimes make for hospitals and such.
The plan is to put my male Apisto in there, along with a group of dither fish. I was going to go for H. elachis, but the store hasn't been able to get them. And since I still have a lone H. amandae, I'm thinking of just getting more of these for now. But I'll see what the store has in stock, first. I also really like N. marginatus, so that could be another option.

I cheked the conductivity today, and I'm still sitting at around 50 us/cm, btw. Plants are going strong, also. I will try to take a picture tomorrow.

 

[anewbie]

Just remember borelli are not a blackwater fish and can tolerate (prefer?) slightly harder water.

 

[Yoannikko]

From doing a bit of research since joining this forum, on various other discussions and other sources, I agree that A. borellii are not blackwater fish, but rather are clearwater fish. And if I refer to what @MacZ wrote in another thread
"Blackwater usually has a conductivity under 15µS/cm, so it's basically distilled water in that regard, combined with a 4.3-5.5 pH. Clearwater goes up to 20µS/cm and a pH around 6. Whitewater is at about 50µS/cm with a pH periodically up to 7.5."

In this case, it looks like my EC is higher than what is typically measured in clearwater, no ?

 

[anewbie]

From doing a bit of research since joining this forum, on various other discussions and other sources, I agree that A. borellii are not blackwater fish, but rather are clearwater fish. And if I refer to what @MacZ wrote in another thread
"Blackwater usually has a conductivity under 15µS/cm, so it's basically distilled water in that regard, combined with a 4.3-5.5 pH. Clearwater goes up to 20µS/cm and a pH around 6. Whitewater is at about 50µS/cm with a pH periodically up to 7.5."

In this case, it looks like my EC is higher than what is typically measured in clearwater, no ?

yes and no; i doubt your fish is wild caught so it is probably use to harder water but i would think anything in the 50-100 range would be excellent. Having said that just remember i am new and kind of clueless.

 

[Yoannikko]

No worries, I am also new and kind of clueless ! I've kept fish for a few years, but only just started dabbling in "true" softwater tanks a few months ago.

The Apisto in question were purchased from a private seller at a fish expo in october of 2023. I bought a pair from the seller, but didn't think to enquire about its origins or the water parameters they were bred in...

Anyway, I kept the fish in a tank filled with aquasoil and remineralized RO water. At first, GH was around 7-8, but I had brought it down to 3-4 before moving the female and 3 fry into this tank.
The male Apistogramma that I have left is the last remaining fry from the first spawn I got from the pair purchased at the expo (I got two spawns before the male unfortunately passed).

I will monitor how he is doing once I put him in this tank, but seeing as the female and other fry are doing very well almost two months after being introduced into the tank, I don't think it will be a problem for the male (who is still in water at around 3-4 GH, or 130 us/cm currently).

 

[anewbie]

No worries, I am also new and kind of clueless ! I've kept fish for a few years, but only just started dabbling in "true" softwater tanks a few months ago.

The Apisto in question were purchased from a private seller at a fish expo in october of 2023. I bought a pair from the seller, but didn't think to enquire about its origins or the water parameters they were bred in...

Anyway, I kept the fish in a tank filled with aquasoil and remineralized RO water. At first, GH was around 7-8, but I had brought it down to 3-4 before moving the female and 3 fry into this tank.
The male Apistogramma that I have left is the last remaining fry from the first spawn I got from the pair purchased at the expo (I got two spawns before the male unfortunately passed).

I will monitor how he is doing once I put him in this tank, but seeing as the female and other fry are doing very well almost two months after being introduced into the tank, I don't think it will be a problem for the male (who is still in water at around 3-4 GH, or 130 us/cm currently).

It is almost cetainly tank raised as borelli haven't been exported for a while - i don't think they are scarce but certain areas of Brazil won't allow exports for various reasons - also then there was a long strike - i've been looking for wild caugth borelli for about 4 years; though in truth if they become available today i no longer have tank space for them

 

[Yoannikko]

Oh yeah, they were definitely not WC, but I don't know if the seller kept them in regular tap water, or if they tried to at least get closer to the natural environment.

In any case, my reasoning is that aquarium fish (apart from goldfish and B. splendens, mostly) have only been kept in aquariums for a few decades, at most. And while that does represent quite a few generations, it cannot compare to the hundreds, if not thousands in some cases, of years that these fish have adapted to their habitat.
Maybe I am completely off, but if this is the case, replicating that habitat as closely as possible, at least vis-à-vis water chemistry, can only be beneficial to the fish.

 

[MacZ]

In any case, my reasoning is that aquarium fish (apart from goldfish and B. splendens, mostly) have only been kept in aquariums for a few decades, at most. And while that does represent quite a few generations, it cannot compare to the hundreds, if not thousands in some cases, of years that these fish have adapted to their habitat.
Maybe I am completely off, but if this is the case, replicating that habitat as closely as possible, at least vis-à-vis water chemistry, can only be beneficial to the fish.

We're very much on the same page here. I have noticed that even the creations of linebreeding (colour breeds) of all heavily bred species of dwarf cichlids, like M. ramirezi and A. cacatuoides still benefit from super soft and acidic water. That even goes for Bettas btw.

 

[Yoannikko]

These species haven't been kept in aquariums for very long, so it would make sense that even "human-engineered" morphs would benefit from parameters close to their origins. I would have thought Betta splendens would be different as they've been kept in aquariums for much, much longer.
I've tried keeping a few over the years, without much success, they all passed away fairly quickly.

The last one was a plakat galaxy koi, a very beautiful fish. I did not know a lot about softwater at that time, but knew they lived in fairly acidic water at least. I put him in a tank with aquasoil, which buffered pH to 6.5, and remineralized RO (7-8 GH), but he got sick and eventually passed away... A LFS employee that I asked for advice at the time told me it was most likely acidosis, but that never made sense to me.

Maybe it was just genetically weakened because, or maybe the water wasn't soft/acidic enough. I don't know. What's "funny" is that a coworker of mine had a Betta in the office, and had kept it in an unheated/unfiltered bowl, filled with tap water, for two years before I arrived. I told her it needed a bigger tank and a heater. But it only lived for about a year in the new setup...
Anyway, if I ever get Bettas again, it'll be a wild-type, as these should be hardier.

 

[Yoannikko]

Hey everyone,

So as promised, a few pics of the tank taken today. My male A. borellii has finally moved in, along with my lone H. amandae, and 3 C. pygmaeus that I did not know were still in the tank ^^'

All the fish seem to be doing well in their new environment, hopefully my little Apisto will have a long and healthy life !

I wanted your opinion on dither fish. As H. elachys seems to be pretty hard to find in my area, I was thinking of going with, either more amandae, or more pygmaeus. Which do you guys think I should go for ?

 

[anewbie]

I think smaller dithers like morse code tetra or n. marilynae work better esp in an aquarium shaped like yours. Both species like to form larger groups. The n. marilynae are a little longer but the body thickness is about the same. Of course i'm bias in the preference for small dithers which seems to be at odd with others. Most seem to like the larger species. If you won't get a female c. pygmy (or my preferce) c. hastatus will likely work - they both have similar behavior and my preference is more on looks than actual behavior between the two - however they do work better in a larger group - 20,40 or more; though many folks get away with 6 or 10.

 

[Yoannikko]

Personnally, the size of diter fish depends on the size of the centerpiece fish. In this case, my Apisto is not that big, maybe around 5 or 6 cm, but it hopefully will grow a bit more. In any case, it will never be a giant of a fish. So for dither fish, I would like to stay in the range of 2 cm, 3 tops. Both the tetra and the corys fall in this category. I would prefer to focus on one or the other, as I don't want to introduce a third species of dither fish in this tank.

I know the dimensions aren't optimal, but I will likely move them again, back into my 54L (60x30x30) when I get a bigger tank to put my pleco in.