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taeniacara candidi sick ? Pale/white scales

MacZ

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From equatorial areas, yes, but warmer water? No. On the many times I visited the exporter Stingray Aquarium in Iquitos, Peru I always stopped to visit the pond outside their office. This pond, other than some aquatic turtles, contained swarms (no other word for it) of Otocinclus, which they periodically netted for export. The water at the surface was warm but where the otos lived was much cooler, around 24°C/75°F.
In the EU we get a lot of them from Brazil via Manaus. Peruvian populations are different indeed.
 

MacZ

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In the US most are from Peru. We get very few fish from Brazil if something similar can be gotten elsewhere.
Probably due to regulations and trade agreements. Right now Peru is politically a bit of a problem, so how does that look at the moment?
 

Apistomaster

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Clarkston, WA
I noticed that you have an infestation of Hydra. I detest them hence the following unsolicited advice.
You can eradicate them almost overnight by treating the tank with the anthelminthic, flubendazole. I think this medication is available over the counter in the EU.
I dose it a about 2 mg/liter using a 5 to 10% powder. The actual dose is not very important.
Flubendazole powder is not very soluble in water but it is easy to make up a suspension in warm water before pouring it into the tank. It is very safe. I have treated for Hydra in Neocardina shrimp in heavily planted tanks without any problems although it does kill some snails. I wiped out all the Malayan Trumpet snails in the shrimp tank but I call that a win. Feeding Artemia nauplii will always induce a Hydra population boom if there are any present.
It is also an effective medication for Piscinoodinium aka "Velvet disease."

I agree with all the above advice regarding warmer blackwater conditions for your Taeniacara candidi.
As to the diagnosis of a bacterial infection. Any available treatment is unlikely to work although chloramphenicol has worked for me it is not an easy antibiotic to obtain but it is colorless, doesn't harm plants nor shrimp. I use about 12mg/l. I would definitely raise the temperature to 30C. Maybe 31C for awhile temporarily.
 

MacZ

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I think this medication is available over the counter in the EU.
Only on prescription and finding a vet who treats ornamental fish is like winning the lottery. Most vets here in Germany would either say euthanize as it's not worth it or would require a dead specimen for analysis and diagnosis to safe the rest of the stock. In case of a small home aquarium the first option would be more likely. I know in France the chance of finding a vet with expertise in fish is higher, the resuslt will be likely the same though.
chloramphenicol
Also only on prescription plus there are barely any ready to use preparations available it seems. And they won't give you the stuff on its own.

I would definitely raise the temperature to 30C. Maybe 31C for awhile temporarily.
That doesn't make sense in case of a bacterial infection. If the fish was kept in softwater conditions and required that temp, maybe, but in the circumstances as they are right now, the temp should not be tempered with. If it wasn't a species that likes it warm maybe even dropping to 23-24°C would be ok, but not up.
 

Mike Wise

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Probably due to regulations and trade agreements. Right now Peru is politically a bit of a problem, so how does that look at the moment?
Brazilian regs make importing fish more expensive than Peruvian. The political situation in Peru has had no bearing on making money.:)
 

Apistomaster

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Only on prescription and finding a vet who treats ornamental fish is like winning the lottery. Most vets here in Germany would either say euthanize as it's not worth it or would require a dead specimen for analysis and diagnosis to safe the rest of the stock. In case of a small home aquarium the first option would be more likely. I know in France the chance of finding a vet with expertise in fish is higher, the resuslt will be likely the same though.

Also only on prescription plus there are barely any ready to use preparations available it seems. And they won't give you the stuff on its own.


That doesn't make sense in case of a bacterial infection. If the fish was kept in softwater conditions and required that temp, maybe, but in the circumstances as they are right now, the temp should not be tempered with. If it wasn't a species that likes it warm maybe even dropping to 23-24°C would be ok, but not up.
I only shared solutions to similar problems which have worked for me over the decades including extensive experience in the treatment of diseases of fishes which arise in aquaculture.
A quick search online lead me to understand that flubendazole was available in most of the EU. I made it clear that chloramphenicol is difficult to obtain. It was very difficult for me to get bottle of 25 grams but it is used as a bacteriostatic in some culture media in biological labs in this country.
I greatly respect your expertise. Consider that none of us knows everything or we would not participate in a knowledge sharing forum.
 
Last edited:

MacZ

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Germany
I only shared solutions to similar problems which have worked for me over the decades including extensive experience in the treatment of diseases of fishes which arise in aquaculture.
A quick search online lead me to understand that flubendazole was available in most of the EU. I made it clear that chloramphenicol is difficult to obtain. It was very difficult for me to get bottle of 25 grams but it is used as a bacteriostatic in some culture media in biological labs in this country.
I greatly respect your expertise. Consider that none of us knows everything or we would not participate in a knowledge sharing forum.
I was just adding as you said you were not sure. Yes, they are available but only on prescription is the baseline. The med-situation in the EU is really a desolate one. We have basically nothing unless we find a suitable vet that is affordable.
 

anewbie

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1,339
I was just adding as you said you were not sure. Yes, they are available but only on prescription is the baseline. The med-situation in the EU is really a desolate one. We have basically nothing unless we find a suitable vet that is affordable.
Recently things have gotten worse in USA; in 2019 i could pretty much buy any sort of fish med; but recently quite a few have vanished; not sure if the FDA cracked down or something related to pandemic or both but meds i had previously purchased could not longer be found for sale.
 

MacZ

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Here it's a process started years ago. Antibiotics have made things only worse at some point with pathogens developing restistances, so they were taken out of sale first. Then legislation has not made a difference between ornamental and food fish. So all meds that are detrimental to human health when consumed with a fish have been banned. Now also the approbation of meds has become a complicated process most manufacturers are not willing to do so with meds they sold unlimited for years, so the just disappear from the trade. Some with a bang, some unnoticed except by those who would need them.
 

Eddy. E.

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The problem was too, that antibiotics were used in a completely unreflective manner and also polluted the sewage treatment plants, with the result that resistance developed precisely there.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
So, quick update :
I called the seller to see if he had the same issue with some of them, everything is fine on his side.
He is still eating well, and i can definitly see a regression, now it's just visible one one half on the body and les pronounced, BUT i saw an oto with some marks on his body, kida like columnaris, could this be related, or he just damaged itself and it's healing? other fishes are still fine, water is still good (0/0/0)
 

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MacZ

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Germany
BUT i saw an oto with some marks on his body, kida like columnaris, could this be related, or he just damaged itself and it's healing?
That is definitely a bacterial infection. And the fish is looking quite thin. How long have you had the Otocinclus? How long is the tank running btw? You can expect losses due to starvation during transport from catch to retailer up to 6 months after purchase.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
I have him for over a month now, he was in a quarantaine tank for 3 weeks an is in this tank since 2 weeks

He is quite thin, his mate is much bigger with a fat belly.

All i have right now is Esha 2000 and Exit, can this help ? Where can i found green malachite in Europe ?
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
I noticed that you have an infestation of Hydra. I detest them hence the following unsolicited advice.
You can eradicate them almost overnight by treating the tank with the anthelminthic, flubendazole. I think this medication is available over the counter in the EU.
I dose it a about 2 mg/liter using a 5 to 10% powder. The actual dose is not very important.
Flubendazole powder is not very soluble in water but it is easy to make up a suspension in warm water before pouring it into the tank. It is very safe. I have treated for Hydra in Neocardina shrimp in heavily planted tanks without any problems although it does kill some snails. I wiped out all the Malayan Trumpet snails in the shrimp tank but I call that a win. Feeding Artemia nauplii will always induce a Hydra population boom if there are any present.
It is also an effective medication for Piscinoodinium aka "Velvet disease."
I do not worry much about hydras, i had them in all my tanks, including my reef tank, after few weeks they usually just disapear by themselves and never come back, i'll see how it goes
 

MacZ

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2,904
Location
Germany
I have him for over a month now, he was in a quarantaine tank for 3 weeks an is in this tank since 2 weeks

He is quite thin, his mate is much bigger with a fat belly.

All i have right now is Esha 2000 and Exit, can this help ?
This list has all meds available in North America and Europe, though legality and availability is marked UK-specific. In general all the antibiotics and dewormers in this list are not available in the EU anymore. It also lists the indications and ingredients.


Where can i found green malachite in Europe ?
Pharmacy if you want it without other things in the mix.

eSHa 2000 contains copper, which is toxic to most smaller catfish like Otocinclus and Corydoras.

You might try eSHa Exit.
But I'll say it right now: Otocinclus have loss rates up to 100% within the first 3 months and still 50% until 6 months after purchase. Meds or not. And this one is in a bad condition.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
Thanks !

I just read that 2 days without food and they can't digest anymore this is real ? Why do we keep selling them then ?
 

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