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how to deworm wild caught discus

anewbie

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1,424
I would let them acclimate and provide the bit of structure I described previously. Let them go without meds for now. I am very surprised you didn't have the frozen bloodworms in your freezer. They may not be interested in any commercial prepared foods at first. I would only offer Tetra Bits and only what they're willing to eat immediately. Leave no leftovers
As a reminder, I have had good success with keeping and breeding wild discus relying on few foods: frozen bloodworms, earthworm sticks, Tetra Color Bits and live blackworms. The later seems to have become very difficult to obtain and why I suggested live adult Artemia. Just be very judicious with the foods you have until you can obtain what foods you currently lack. Must say, I'm scratching my head over this oversight.

As long as the new discus are in the quarantine tank you can take your time deciding whether or not treatment is warranted. Getting them off to a good start in qt is 90% of the battle.
Well i had purchased freeze dried black worms in hope they would eat that. I'll try some sprintula flakes which i have on hand. The reason for no blood worm is most dwarf cichild i've been told they are bad (too fatty/diseses) I can pick some up from the fish store early next week. I'll see if they will eat any of the flakes i have on hand; and fluval bug bite.
 

Apistomaster

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5 Year Member
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Impossible to know if the new fish will respond to freeze-dried tubifex. Highly doubt they're truly "blackworms," Lumbriculus variegatus. Recommend limiting initial diet to Tetra Bits. Not Bug bites, flakes and try very small amount of fd worm cubes. 1/2 cube for all four discus, not per discus. These will be more likely to be eaten if you can keep it on the bottom within a coarse weave netting. They are natural bottom grazing fish and will initially be more at ease feeding from the bottom.
I do not subscribe to the proposition that frozen bloodworms are too ?fatty? Nor do I think they should be the sole food. They probably aren't the cleanest of foods either but the fact of the matter is that Chironomidae larvae and pupae make up a major component of these fishes natural diet. Tradeoffs are often necessary. You aren't running a biology lab fishroom.
 

Apistomaster

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Clarkston, WA
Use the Tetra Color Bits listed first. I've always used the standard, original granules size suitable for Cardinal to discus. Not the Crisp Flakes, at least for now. Try to keep a simple diet at first. Expand as you gain experience with your discus.
 

MacZ

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3,119
Location
Germany
The thing with bloodworms is a overproportional number of deaths among dwarf cichlids related to feeding them. They also rather lack in fat an have a very high protein content. Some think it might be too high causing protein poisoning.
The main problem though in my opinion: They are so easy to produce and cheap quality and especially handling of the frozen product before even reaching the customer are the main issue. Broken cooling chain, cheap, maybe contaminated production... Many people do not feed them to any fish anymore. Though I have to admit, I'd have no problem feeding them to other fish than dwarf cichlids. Those are the only ones noted for having issues.
 

anewbie

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1,424
I'll see if they will eat the freeze dried black worms; they were not cheap - these are the products;


and saturday or tuesday pick up some frozen bloodworms. Holiday season is always a messy mess.

Really for a city the size of the one i live in options are horribly limiting and mail order is best but live blackworms aren't an option :(

Kenfish has frozen bloodworm but not sure that is better than the local store which is kind of lame. Hum... gotta think this one out a bit. Anyway i'll do a 20% water change on the discus qt tank and add a thin layer of white sand - have a partial bag in the closet.
 

MacZ

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3,119
Location
Germany
Hmmm rather the sand than reflections from the glass. I'd still add a good portion of catappa leaves, too for darkening the surroundings and for humic substances.
From what I hear hobbywise some of you on the other side of the pond seem to be living in a desert. Makes it hard to compare and give advise sometimes as I have to think back decades for solutions that suit your possibilities. We're really used to very convenient options here in Europe nowerdays
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
72
Location
Germany
It is absolute nonsense to fatten up(!) discus fish exclusively with a food that contains 66% protein, such as dried bloodworms. Discus fish are not fundamentally carnivorous, but omnivorous. In the wild they feed on algae growth, peryphyton, detritus, fruits and small invertebrates. You don't have to be a great connoisseur to recognize this, because if you look at their small mouths and the lack of teeth, as found in predators, the diet mentioned makes perfect sense.
The digestive tract of Symphysodon is characterized by a weakly developed stomach and an elongated intestine that is about 300 mm long and 3 mm wide (in an adult specimen). This intestinal morphology is typical of a cichlid that feeds predominantly on a vegetarian, detritivorous or omnivorous diet. Predominantly piscivorous cichlids such as Cichla and Crenicichla have shorter digestive tracts with well-developed stomachs. The same applies to piranhas, for example.
If you need more information on the natural diet of discus fish:
Ecology and life history of an Amazon floodplain cichlid: the discus fish Symphysodon (Perciformes: Cichlidae)
 

Apistomaster

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5 Year Member
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736
Location
Clarkston, WA
It is absolute nonsense to fatten up(!) discus fish exclusively with a food that contains 66% protein, such as dried bloodworms. Discus fish are not fundamentally carnivorous, but omnivorous. In the wild they feed on algae growth, peryphyton, detritus, fruits and small invertebrates. You don't have to be a great connoisseur to recognize this, because if you look at their small mouths and the lack of teeth, as found in predators, the diet mentioned makes perfect sense.
The digestive tract of Symphysodon is characterized by a weakly developed stomach and an elongated intestine that is about 300 mm long and 3 mm wide (in an adult specimen). This intestinal morphology is typical of a cichlid that feeds predominantly on a vegetarian, detritivorous or omnivorous diet. Predominantly piscivorous cichlids such as Cichla and Crenicichla have shorter digestive tracts with well-developed stomachs. The same applies to piranhas, for example.
If you need more information on the natural diet of discus fish:
Ecology and life history of an Amazon floodplain cichlid: the discus fish Symphysodon (Perciformes: Cichlidae)
I pointed out that Symphysodon were omnivores quite a ways back in this thread.
The current issue is to make them at ease in the evirons of the temp QT and get them eating something while avoiding any water pollution. New discus keepers often try to feed newly arrived too much and too often.
These fish appear to be in good condition and I would expect them to quickly adapt to their new home.
Their new owner, a newbie, could have been better prepared but he's on the right track and I expect him to quickly come into his own as a discus hobbyist.
For everything there is a first time.
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,424
Here is the current aquarium - they are huddling because i just disturb the tank and the water change lowered the temp 2 1/2 degree.

I'll add a little more substrate tomorrow or tuesday. I have a lot of different foods and each time i feed them will try something different. I have nls pellets; vibra brites; sprintula flakes (mostly for my grazers); sera flakes; nls algae max; .... I had just counted on them eating the freeze dried black worms which i guess was a mistake.
-
The focus of the water change was to remove all un-eaten food before it could decay; so it was only 15 to 20%; i will probably stick with small water changes 2 or 3 times a day and only feed them a few flakes/pellets twice a day until i see them eat something. I'm well aware they can go weeks without eating though my intention is to not starve them but try different foods until they find something they like.

--
zz1.jpg
 

Apistomaster

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736
Location
Clarkston, WA
You are not starving them if they eat. You don't want to even have a need to siphon leftovers. It means too much, food they don't want yet, are not interested in or all the above. Their needs aren't all that complicated. I've shared what I know can work for beginners to experts.
You have more than enough sand. The idea was to barely conceal the bottom glass over most of the area. Just a measuring cup worth of sand would have done the trick and it gives them something to do, picking and puffing fine sand. In this respect, discus behavior is quite similar to Apistogramma.
 

Apistomaster

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5 Year Member
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736
Location
Clarkston, WA
If you're not doing so already, I would recommend that you keep and eye on the nitrogenous compounds. Do not allow nitrites to reach measurable levels.
 

anewbie

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1,424
If you're not doing so already, I would recommend that you keep and eye on the nitrogenous compounds. Do not allow nitrites to reach measurable levels.
I'm doing ammonia test twice a day; i presume that ammonia will show up before nitrites - at least that has been my experience in the past; but i can do nitrtie test if yuo feel that is safer. I'm also adding a few drops of prime conditioner to help neutralize any nitrite and ammonia but so far my ammonia readings have been 0 (liquid test).
 

Apistomaster

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5 Year Member
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Clarkston, WA
I think you are doing fine and agree with you about your testing regime.
Last year an old friend of mine bought seven assorted domestic discus which were about 4 inches in diameter.
He likes to feed and feed and feed his fish. He has more types of fancy prepared foods than I would have thought existed.
I merely had to glance across the living room and it was obvious to me that the fish were in distress and the water was cloudy, of course. Been his discus mentor for nearly 50 years and the guy still doesn't get the basics right. Four survived. How he could spend so much on them and let them be poisoned by nitrites is beyond me.
Your grasp on the fundamentals is by far in excess of my old friend's.
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
72
Location
Germany
Testing for ammonium twice a day is absolutely excessive. If the aquarium is running, it makes sense to test once a week at most. If a decent filter is installed, which is not cleaned every two or three weeks, there is no danger of nitrite, as long as there is not too much feeding. It is certainly okay to carry out a few water tests, but you should not overdo it. Looking at the picture above, I would make sure to offer the discus fish a shelter. They are dark, crowded together, what I can see is pure stress for the fish.
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,424
Testing for ammonium twice a day is absolutely excessive. If the aquarium is running, it makes sense to test once a week at most. If a decent filter is installed, which is not cleaned every two or three weeks, there is no danger of nitrite, as long as there is not too much feeding. It is certainly okay to carry out a few water tests, but you should not overdo it. Looking at the picture above, I would make sure to offer the discus fish a shelter. They are dark, crowded together, what I can see is pure stress for the fish.
The tank is first use; never cycled. The sponge filters are mature from another aquarium but sometimes it doesn't work out - so i test the first couple of days frequently (twice) to ensure the bacteria was successfully transferred. Also i try to not over feed but sometime i goof.

They were huddle like that since i just did a water change and added substrate (difference from first to 2nd pictrue). I'll get a new pitcure in an hour or so - they do prefer that side by the heater so there is that oddity.

Anyway i'll get a new picture soon.
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,424
Here is an updated picture this morning. Didn't wnat to get too close in concern it would disturb them:
u1.jpg


Don't think they are eating yet but they are using the full aquarium.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,424
They are eating freeze dried blackworm if i break it up; well one will eat from the surface but the others from the bottom; they won't eat nls alagemax so i need to find something else green they will eat.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,424
Back to the original topic; how do i tell if i need to treat these discus? So far they will only eat the freeze dried blackworms; i've tried mixing the colour tetra stuff with it but they ignore it and let it rot. As far as I can tell the poop is black and i took these two pictures in case someone can spot something. This is the end of week 1; i hope to get them into the larger aquarium in the next 3 weeks but of course if they need longer i can wait longer.
xyz1.jpg
xyz2.jpg
 

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