Brazilian wild caught Rams

[Ttw]

So I couldn't stand it. I saw these Rams that were said to be wild caught from Brazil. The seller couldn't tell me anything more than that they were suppose to be wild caught from Brazil. Needed to see them so I purchased some. They are small and I don't think fully colored up yet but I can't see an obvious difference from my wild Colombian rams. I will see how they turn out with some time.

 

[anewbie]

I know aquaticclarity was advertising some rams as wc brazil rams - not sure if they are the ones you are talking about. IF they are from brazil i would not expect them to be very different - perhaps some minor traits due to genetic difference but i think the bigger benefit would be increase genetic diversity esp if crossed with columbian gbr. I'm not sure there is a good reason not cross the population but the 'experts' might have a good reason to avoid such. Having said that they could very well be from columbia and exported by someone in brazil - i don't know enough to comment one way or the other.

 

[anewbie]

oops - bad article - i don't think they are found natively in Brazil but rather in venezuela and columbia.

 

[MacZ]

I doubt they are from brazil. That would be a sensation on many levels.

 

[anewbie]

I doubt they are from brazil. That would be a sensation on many levels.

i was wondering if climate change has been rapid enough in south america to allow them if not natrually to live in brazil for some to be caught and then relocated to areas of brazil ?

 

[MacZ]

i was wondering if climate change has been rapid enough in south america to allow them if not natrually to live in brazil for some to be caught and then relocated to areas of brazil ?

Climate change has other consequences for South America (especially drought and wildfires) while technically still any body of clearwater in equatorial South America would allow for M. ramirezi to live in.

if not natrually to live in brazil for some to be caught and then relocated to areas of brazil ?

It would definitely be the only explanation if they are caught in Brazil unless they were found in the Rio Negro where Orinoco and Negro are connected.

And it would only be a sensation if they occured naturally and somebody was actually able to find, catch and export them.

If they were really wild caught my best guess is: Just like certain Discus, Angelfish and the disaster with the Pebas-Apistogramma they might have been moved somewhere by humans, and released to form a feral population.

I guess it is much more realistic if they are actually colombian and F1-F5 tankbred in Brazil e.g. from the Ruinemanns facilities in Manaus.

 

[anewbie]

Climate change has other consequences for South America (especially drought and wildfires) while technically still any body of clearwater in equatorial South America would allow for M. ramirezi to live in.


It would definitely be the only explanation if they are caught in Brazil unless they were found in the Rio Negro where Orinoco and Negro are connected.

And it would only be a sensation if they occured naturally and somebody was actually able to find, catch and export them.

If they were really wild caught my best guess is: Just like certain Discus, Angelfish and the disaster with the Pebas-Apistogramma they might have been moved somewhere by humans, and released to form a feral population.

I guess it is much more realistic if they are actually colombian and F1-F5 tankbred in Brazil e.g. from the Ruinemanns facilities in Manaus.

However either I think the seller should know better....

 

[MacZ]

However either I think the seller should know better....

Completely agree, morally questionable.

 

[Mike Wise]

Reminds me of A. sp. "Paraguay" and L. araguaiae. A. sp. "Paraguay" is a caetei-complex species found only in the lower Amazon. This species was once exported from Paraguay. L. araguiea is also only known to occur in the lower Amazon. It, too, was found in Paraguay. The best guess is that they escaped export stations in Paraguay. I even saw for myself a tank full of Zebra Plecos L0246 in an exporters tank in Peru in 2015. The owner claimed that they were collected in Peru (Yeh, right). The only Rams native to Brazil are M. altispinosus and M. maculicauda - and they look very different from M. ramirezi.

 

[Ttw]

These are definitely not either of the other species.

 

[Papja]

There is a photo from 2010 made by Enrico Richter of ramirezi found in Rio Purus drainage: https://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mikrogeophagus-ramirezi-Purus.jpg

I saw some ramirezi described as Brazil WC, I think that this can be case of stock exchange within exporters from different countries? This has happened with L46, as Mike said, but these are much more expensive fish than ramirezi.

 

[MacZ]

Hmmm the picture was definitely taken in an aquarium. So the provenance of the specimen is reliant on the source. I can't find any sources independent from E. Richter and seriouslyfish, though.