how to deworm wild caught discus

[anewbie]

First i applogize for posting this in the wrong forum and i suspect there is no right forum for non-dwarf cicihld; still i hope to draw upon your expertise.

I'm picking up some wild caught discus - the seller indicated he has been deworming them for 4 weeks but recommended i continue the process to be safe. My question is what is a safe way to deworm wild caught cichild (or any fish for that matter). I know there is a fairly standard process but having never done it before this will be a new process for myself. The aquarium in question is 240 gallons at 84 degree with ro water stablized with peat. It will have 8 5 inch wild caught discus and some cardinal tetra and maybe one pleco (L177); that will be the full stocking until i add 6 wild caught rams; that will be the full stocking.

Plan is to feed the discus freeze dried blackworm and zoo med spritunal 20 (flake food that is heavy on greens). If they refuse to eat both then i guess i'll have to figure out real fast how to obtain and keep live blackworms.

Thank you.

 

[MacZ]

No.1 dewormer is Praziquantel, if the fish don't eat it's Levamisole (gets resorbed via the gills). To make sure they also don't have flagellates (which cause Hole-in-the-head) use a med containing Nitrothiazolylazane (or a similar active ingredient). Don't use at once, first do a dewormer, then against flagellates.

Great you are not going down the beef heart route, which is simply bs.

These might interest you.

 

[anewbie]

No.1 dewormer is Praziquantel, if the fish don't eat it's Levamisole (gets resorbed via the gills). To make sure they also don't have flagellates (which cause Hole-in-the-head) use a med containing Nitrothiazolylazane (or a similar active ingredient). Don't use at once, first do a dewormer, then against flagellates.

Great you are not going down the beef heart route, which is simply bs.

These might interest you.

Should i use praziquantel and levamisole at the same time or try one first and then the other ?

 

[MacZ]

As I said:
If the fish eat - Praziquantel
If they don't - Levamisole

If possible try not to use two or more meds at the same time. You might overstretch their resistance to the side effects.
What you should definitely do is go for worms first and then for flagellates. Wild caught discus usually have both and only the strongest (non-recommendable) meds make quick process with both.

In any case, ask what the seller used up to this point as well.

 

[anewbie]

As I said:
If the fish eat - Praziquantel
If they don't - Levamisole

If possible try not to use two or more meds at the same time. You might overstretch their resistance to the side effects.
What you should definitely do is go for worms first and then for flagellates. Wild caught discus usually have both and only the strongest (non-recommendable) meds make quick process with both.

In any case, ask what the seller used up to this point as well.

Ok. I got an answer from the seller - he has been using prazi pro and MetroPlex together for the past 4 weeks. He recommend 4 more weeks of both medicines. Does that sound good to you (you said above not to use two medicine together so double checking) ?

 

[MacZ]

Hmmm... the thing is:
If he really did both for 4 weeks, the fish should be parasite free. The question is: Did he really treat them? If he knew what he's doing he would not recommend another treatment after this.
If he did, doing another treatment is potentially lethal as the stuff is not to be joked with. Kidney or liver failure is possible.
Otherwise typical trader move. Pumping the fish full of meds. I hate this.

I would definitely keep them in quarantine for a week without medication, see if they eat, check their feces. If they show even the slightest (but definitive!) symptoms of inner parasite, do one treatment with each Prazi and Nitro.
Stay away from the meds he used, they are much too strong.

 

[anewbie]

Hmmm... the thing is:
If he really did both for 4 weeks, the fish should be parasite free. The question is: Did he really treat them? If he knew what he's doing he would not recommend another treatment after this.
If he did, doing another treatment is potentially lethal as the stuff is not to be joked with. Kidney or liver failure is possible.
Otherwise typical trader move. Pumping the fish full of meds. I hate this.

I would definitely keep them in quarantine for a week without medication, see if they eat, check their feces. If they show even the slightest (but definitive!) symptoms of inner parasite, do one treatment with each Prazi and Nitro.
Stay away from the meds he used, they are much too strong.

I'm confused - you said to stay away from the meds he used; but then you said to use prazi - isn't prazi the same as hirkai prezi pro? Or maybe there is a subtle difference i'm missing. Also what is nitro ? In either case wait until the fishes are received and see what festus look like and yes i'll post pictures before using any meds.

 

[MacZ]

Prazipro is a combination with another ingredient (Sorry, forgot which one.), and combination-meds usually have harder side-effects.

Also what is nitro ?

See above:

To make sure they also don't have flagellates (which cause Hole-in-the-head) use a med containing Nitrothiazolylazane (or a similar active ingredient).

 

[Apistomaster]

I have some thoughts. Take them for what they're worth. I've kept wild Discus off and on since 1968. I used to have a fish store and an attached quarantine/breeding room. The first I was able to get breed was a wild pair of Royal Blues during the first Apollo moon landing mission. I was only 17 at the time and my attention was torn between what to me were two major events. Since then I have had many other successful wild discus spawn.
I have had success with three species, S. axelrodi, S. haraldi and S. aequifasciata. lord knows I've tried but I have never been able to get a spawn from S. discus. My best result was one spawn of S. axelrodi which had been given over an entire 125 gallon tank. That pair raised 147 fry to one inch. Quite the sight.

I'm well aware of the flaws of using beef heart but the fact remains I have had success with it as a staple food in the past. In more recent times I have relied on Tetra Bits, frozen blood worms, live black worms and believe it or not but earthworm sticks have proven to be extremely useful staple food for all discus to me.

Disease treatment.
Always starts in a 40 gal breeder quarantine tank. Large enough to temporarily house six 5 inch discus but small enough to minimize the quantity of medications consumed.
I expect most reputable suppliers now provide some useful treatment such as deworming. However I also know the fish business and prefer to treat my new wild discus. I happen to use a "shotgun" regime consisting of Prazipro, flubendazole and metronidazole(Flagyl.). I began experimenting with Flagyl in 1970.
To each their own but to quote the acid rock music guru, Grace Slick of Jefferson Airplane, "I don't care if there are chemicals in it as long as my lettuce is crisp.)

 

[Apistomaster]

Something for the eyes. This is a pair of F1, Nhamunda S. haraldi attending their first spawn.

 

[anewbie]

I have some thoughts. Take them for what they're worth. I've kept wild Discus off and on since 1968. I used to have a fish store and an attached quarantine/breeding room. The first I was able to get breed was a wild pair of Royal Blues during the first Apollo moon landing mission. I was only 17 at the time and my attention was torn between what to me were two major events. Since then I have had many other successful wild discus spawn.
I have had success with three species, S. axelrodi, S. haraldi and S. aequifasciata. lord knows I've tried but I have never been able to get a spawn from S. discus. My best result was one spawn of S. axelrodi which had been given over an entire 125 gallon tank. That pair raised 147 fry to one inch. Quite the sight.

I'm well aware of the flaws of using beef heart but the fact remains I have had success with it as a staple food in the past. In more recent times I have relied on Tetra Bits, frozen blood worms, live black worms and believe it or not but earthworm sticks have proven to be extremely useful staple food for all discus to me.

Disease treatment.
Always starts in a 40 gal breeder quarantine tank. Large enough to temporarily house six 5 inch discus but small enough to minimize the quantity of medications consumed.
I expect most reputable suppliers now provide some useful treatment such as deworming. However I also know the fish business and prefer to treat my new wild discus. I happen to use a "shotgun" regime consisting of Prazipro, flubendazole and metronidazole(Flagyl.). I began experimenting with Flagyl in 1970.
To each their own but to quote the acid rock music guru, Grace Slick of Jefferson Airplane, "I don't care if there are chemicals in it as long as my lettuce is crisp.)

The thing is how long did you treat them. If i take the seller at his word and they have had 4 weeks of treatment do they need more or should i just wait and see. Also I don't have a 40B available - they will have to go into the 240; having said that the 240 is dedicated to them and the only other fish in there are some cheap tiny cardinals so i don't mind treating the full tank (other than the waste in med); Even if i ran over to petco and got a 40B today i don't have a place to put it (stand).

 

[Apistomaster]

Sorry, I usually treat them for four to six weeks.
These fish are expensive. I wouldn't make any exceptions to the quarantine regime. I gave my reasons as to relying upon a sellers claims. They're your fish. You pays your money take your own chances.

 

[Apistomaster]

I hope you find a way. You should treat these fish in a bare bottomed tank.

 

[anewbie]

Sorry, I usually treat them for four to six weeks.
These fish are expensive. I wouldn't make any exceptions to the quarantine regime. I gave my reasons as to relying upon a sellers claims. They're your fish. You pays your money take your own chances.

I'll try to get over the petco later this week and see if they have a 55; bit narrow than a 40 but i think i have a bench a 55 could sit on that is not wide enough for a 40.

 

[Apistomaster]

That would work. Great you have a temporary stand.
If there is just one cardinal rule with keeping these fish: Never try to try to ice skate uphill.

 

[anewbie]

That would work. Great you have a temporary stand.
If there is just one cardinal rule with keeping these fish: Never try to try to ice skate uphill.

My temporary stands:


These are 130 inches long and 18 to 18 1/2 inch wide. The 40B might fit if it is precisely fitted but not 100% sure if the frame will overhang.

 

[anewbie]

Do you think a bare bottom 29 would work for 4 5-6 inch discus for two weeks if i did daily 50% water changes ?

I check local store inventory and stuff is kind of out of stock because of the holiday weekend and i have a spare 29 sitting around never used. My gut feeling is a 29 is pushing it in water volume but just not sure.

 

[Apistomaster]

I wouldn't do it.

 

[anewbie]

I wouldn't do it.

I talked to someone else who has qt wild discus up to 6 inches and they said they typically use a 20 for 2 weeks without issues; i might start with the 29 and if it looked problematic go ahead and move them into the 240; i'll check another pet shop to see what they have tomorrow.

 

[Apistomaster]

Do you know of https://forum.simplydiscus.com/forum.php.
I tired of the place but while still active, I originated the "Heckel Project."
Look at the wild discus subforum.
I don't think I can be of more help to you.
Good luck.