New, and looking for a beautiful pair

[PolskaPisto]

Afternoon all,

I've kept a Macmasteri (marketed as a viejita) for a couple of years, and I think he's been an incredible centerpiece. Now, I am more interested in the wild caught variants and natural lines.
I've built a new tank and I have been looking for a very clean/light looking Apisto couple.

It's embarrassing to ask, but are there some 'cleaner' white species or those with more solid coloring that are not necessarily line bred? I found some wild and Czech panduros that look incredible, but I am still unsure. It's a difficult question to ask, because I don't have as much attraction towards the typically more greyish variants.

Ultimately I adore these fish.
If anyone has any tips, please share.

Pol

 

[PolskaPisto]

F1 Rio Miua Agassizii Dwarf Cichlid (Apistogramma agassizii Rio Miua)

F1 Rio Miua Agassizii Dwarf Cichlid (Apistogramma agassizii Rio Miua)

redfishbluefish.shop

I have found these guys, but the pictures are so full of contrast and there are no other examples online to compare to.

I've found some ap. miua, but these are marketed as ap. agassizii from the rio miua.
Can I expect them to be this white/yellow?

 

[PolskaPisto]

I have been looking for something like these guys as they appear!
Female can be whichever, but a pearl/white male would be incredible.

With or without banding.

 

[anewbie]

The bottom two fishes are a nijjensi complex fish (i think); as for the male it is sad but often photos of that nature are digitally enhanced to bring out the best but if you were to buy the fish it would look a bit different. To be honest i think all wc agassizii behave the same and they tend to be more colourful than other species but you know a pretty cake does not always taste the best.

 

[PolskaPisto]

Let me know! I’ve found the larger obvious storefronts online with limited selections.

My tanks and I are in the United States for quite a while.

 

[Mike Wise]

The top photo is a massively obese A. gephyra. The colors in both photos are probably bleached out by a light or white substrate. Also the A. gephyra photo appears to be processed with HDR (High Dynamic Range) to increase the brightness, chroma, and contrast of the fish. White or leutistic apisto are rare. I have 2 leutaistic male A. cf. leulingi (Cristal), but neither have bred, common with leutistic and albino specimens.

 

[PolskaPisto]

The top photo is a massively obese A. gephyra. The colors in both photos are probably bleached out by a light or white substrate. Also the A. gephyra photo appears to be processed with HDR (High Dynamic Range) to increase the brightness, chroma, and contrast of the fish. White or leutistic apisto are rare. I have 2 leutaistic male A. cf. leulingi (Cristal), but neither have bred, common with leutistic and albino specimens.

View attachment 14436

Hi Mike,

Beautiful albino.

Thank you for the helpful information. I will probably be on the hunt for a pair of lighter Panduro.
I'm finding how difficult it is to find reproducible colors from online sources of even the same species. I understand males may simply have wildly different color morphs. It's easy to forget even common classifiable species have a massive-massive geographic range. I've found online breeders and importers a little flaky so far.

I think I have expectations of these fish being wildly colorful, but I will typically find that in domestic lines.
I'm incredibly new to dwarf cichlid as a passion, and I'm still green to keeping fish in general.

Do you suggest species?

Pol

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I will probably be on the hunt for a pair of lighter Panduro.
I'm finding how difficult it is to find reproducible colors from online sources of even the same species.

When you ignore photoshop a lot of the range of colour is actually to do with <"diet"> and environment.

If you:

• Feed your fish a lot of live food (and <"pellets etc with carotenoids etc">) and
• keep them in a heavily planted tank with
• subdued lighting.

They will be a lot more colourful than if you don't do these things. I'm not a very good fish keeper, but whatever else may be wrong with my fish husbandry my fish never look washed out.

cheers Darrel

 

[PolskaPisto]

Hi all,

When you ignore photoshop a lot of the range of colour is actually to do with <"diet"> and environment.

If you:

• Feed your fish a lot of live food (and <"pellets etc with carotenoids etc">) and
• keep them in a heavily planted tank with
• subdued lighting.

They will be a lot more colourful than if you don't do these things. I'm not a very good fish keeper, but whatever else may be wrong with my fish husbandry my fish never look washed out.

cheers Darrel

Thank you very much. I had my father out for lunch and I mentioned the Carotenoid food. All he could do was laugh and said "We used that 40 years ago!".

So much to learn!
Do you prefer a brand/dose?

I suspect the Hikari micro pellets I use likely have some carotenoid sources in it.

 

[Mike Wise]

My fish are not albino, they have dark eyes. If someone wants pale apistos the best way to get it is to find poorer quality specimens with pale colors, put them in an open tank with bright white substrate and bright overhead lighting without floating plants.

 

[MacZ]

put them in an open tank with bright white substrate and bright overhead lighting without floating plants.

Oh my! Tough for the fish, but true, they would be pretty washed out.

 

[anewbie]

Just don't let ASPCA know....

 

[MacZ]

Who?

 

[anewbie]

Who?

ASPCA

Learn more about the ASPCA's work to rescue animals from abuse, pass humane laws and share resources with shelters nationwide. Join our fight today!

www.aspca.org

 

[MacZ]

I don't trust NGOs with that. They make a lot of fuzz but nothing will happen. Here the authorities do an acceptable job.

 

[PolskaPisto]

So I found a trio of young Panduros and did my best to get 1M2F. One had the massive black spot on its tail and was clearly a male. The other 2 I suspect are female and have black cowspots behind their gills. They both were in light yellow at the store and it wore off during the move to my tank.

The male and a female who is yellowing back up a tinge are incredibly cordial and she is working him for a date. I don’t have any cave structures in this holding tank at the moment. I’ve never seen an apisto pair before, but they are keeping proximity and the female doesn’t wander too far.

Will these guys ever lay on thicker leafy plants underneath with enough canopy?

I do have some dragon stone with caves that are large enough, but they’ve yet to discover them.

Mind the substrate. This is a very mature tank with a massive mattenfilter. They will all be transferred to my show tank later this month. I want to grow plenty of canopy and my plants are just starting to jolt. They will not be comfortable until a tall under-canopy is formed.

This is suspect female #2. She wore some yellow at the lfs. I am not confident it’s a true female. Both females have come out to nibble at substrate and the male is pretty tolerant.

 

[PolskaPisto]

There is some mild aggression between the females. The male also picks on the third wheel. Everything okay so far. Plenty of life in the tank and no one is retreating to their nooks.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So I found a trio of young Panduros and did my best to get 1M2F.

They are nijssenni group, so pair forming, although a male and female aren't necessarily a pair, they have to like one another.

There is some mild aggression between the females. The male also picks on the third wheel. Everything okay so far. Plenty of life in the tank and no one is retreating to their nooks.

Assuming they form a pair, life is likely to be both unpleasant and short for the spare female.

Mind the substrate. This is a very mature tank with a massive mattenfilter

I'm not trying to be difficult, or pick a fight, but that is what really, really worries me, this isn't a mature tank or a suitable tank for Apistogramma.

You need a lot more cover and for the tank to have grown in a lot more.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

I agree with Darrell, that tank will be the death of at least one of the Apistos unless something is done do mend at least the problem of lacking sight barriers and cover. Not to mention a barely suitable substrate.

In my opinion (and I'm surely not alone) these "high tech, soil, CO2-injection"-scaper tanks are not an appropriate home for any dwarf cichlids. I'm not saying the tank has to be an accurate recreation of the habitat, but the bare requirements should be met. And I see no tank fitting for these fish.

I'll leave it at that. Not in the mood to fight about this, but I can't leave this unmentioned for future readers of this thread.

 

[PolskaPisto]

Hi all,

They are nijssenni group, so pair forming, although a male and female aren't necessarily a pair, they have to like one another.

Assuming they form a pair, life is likely to be both unpleasant and short for the spare female.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or pick a fight, but that is what really, really worries me, this isn't a mature tank or a suitable tank for Apistogramma.

You need a lot more cover and for the tank to have grown in a lot more.

cheers Darrel

That’s not the tank they are in, certainly not my subdued and mature tank. I’m not sure how you gathered that. This tank has a long way to go before I dim the lights and add floating plants and cave structures, let alone a living creature.

There’s simply not enough context that I’ve given for anyone to understand. The CO2 will be dropped dramatically and the lighting will be brought to 50%. Floating plants, canopy, and caves will be added along with beach wood.

The substrate is sufficient and they will thrive. I’ve gathered enough to understand that, aside from sharp gravel, apistos well tolerate fine aqua soils as well as sand.

I’ve seen far worse examples on this forum and much much worse from breeders.

A local apisto breeder encouraged me to go for the trio to encourage a pair and to return a female to their Panduro/nj tank.