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taeniacara candidi sick ? Pale/white scales

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,186
Location
Germany
I just read that 2 days without food and they can't digest anymore this is real ?
It's 2-3 weeks. But yes, their intestinal bacteria mught starve and then it's game over.

Why do we keep selling them then ?
Because Takashi Amano, father of Aquascaping, made them popular as "cleaners" and the industry did the rest. Or in one word: Capitalism.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
F*cking hell I can't believe how many videos I watch on YouTube and just see otos in all the tanks and nobody mentioning that or even talk about the losses, they obviously have losses ??

This is the 1st time I have them, it's my 1st south American tank, I'm more in Asia biotopes.. thanks for the info, I will not buy them again ... And I feel dumb buying them in the 1st place now
 

Apistomaster

Active Member
5 Year Member
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736
Location
Clarkston, WA
Thanks !

I just read that 2 days without food and they can't digest anymore this is real ? Why do we keep selling them then ?
Common Otocinclus are not as inherently delicate as they seem to be. They are typically very abundant and in high demand.
I think as Mike Wise has described elsewhere in the forum, there are some in the tropical fish supply chain who provide adequate care of their fish. Then there are all the rest and Oto's are just a commodity to be sold before they die while still in their facilities.
If Oto's are sourced from reputable exporters and wholesalers, and introduced to aquariums which have attained well developed ecosystems, their survival rates are pretty good. They can easily go more than 2 days without food without any ill effects.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,186
Location
Germany
Then there are all the rest and Oto's are just a commodity to be sold before they die while still in their facilities.
Which is at least 80% of what's out there. Sadly.

Here in this case the fish was likely in bad health before and the tank surely isn't setup for long enough. I'd never put Otos in a tank that has been running less than 6 months. If all goes well maybe 3-4 at the very earliest.
 

MacZ

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Messages
3,186
Location
Germany
I will not buy them again ... And I feel dumb buying them in the 1st place now
If you can get tankbreds, those are hardy af. I have a source for those, and I'm eyeballing them at the moment.
Don't feel dumb, it's kind of a rite of passage nowerdays.
 

Apistomaster

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
736
Location
Clarkston, WA
F*cking hell I can't believe how many videos I watch on YouTube and just see otos in all the tanks and nobody mentioning that or even talk about the losses, they obviously have losses ??
Most YouTube experts are just versions of snake oil salespeople or those pushing "miracles in a can" types.
Try checking out Oliver Lucanus's Belowwater YouTube channel. His videos provide useful insights into the habits and actual habitats of aquarium fishes.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
If you can get tankbreds, those are hardy af. I have a source for those, and I'm eyeballing them at the moment.
Don't feel dumb, it's kind of a rite of passage nowerdays.

Yeah but common, i already feel sad about a sick fish (i have 8 tanks in total, everything is fine i just have this sick fish but it really impacts my moral, when they are old it's hard to see them go but i can deal with this, here it's wild caught (something i try to avoid but it's hard), i didn't bring him all the way here to kill him) + i buy only "wild" form and avoir any kind of selective breeding fish like longfins etc.. I pay some fishes x3 or x4 in my reeftank to have them captive bread and not wild, my corals are from aquacultures etc... So i do feel pretty dumb knowing about the otos now and kinda guilty
Most YouTube experts are just versions of snake oil salespeople or those pushing "miracles in a can" types.
Try checking out Oliver Lucanus's Belowwater YouTube channel. His videos provide useful insights into the habits and actual habitats of aquarium fishes.
Will do, thanks a lot !
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,186
Location
Germany
Yeah but common, i already feel sad about a sick fish (i have 8 tanks in total, everything is fine i just have this sick fish but it really impacts my moral, when they are old it's hard to see them go but i can deal with this, here it's wild caught (something i try to avoid but it's hard), i didn't bring him all the way here to kill him) + i buy only "wild" form and avoir any kind of selective breeding fish like longfins etc.. I pay some fishes x3 or x4 in my reeftank to have them captive bread and not wild, my corals are from aquacultures etc... So i do feel pretty dumb knowing about the otos now and kinda guilty
I'm with you there, although I have to say, there are many freshwater species I prefer to get wild caught, because then at least some people keep fishing in the tropics, protecting the rivers and forests in their own interest, instead of destroying them by mining and lumber. I know it's not as much as people believe to think, but I rather make sure to get sustainably sourced wild caughts than mass produced domestic strains that drop dead from a weid look.

Otos are a special case, as they are feeding specialists (aufwuchs eaters) and hard to get used to dry foods or vegetables. Botanicals and lots of leaf litter are helpful in growing the necessary aufwuchs.

In saltwater I would never get wild caughts, though I'm also not a saltwater type anyways.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,477
Hum. didn't realize otto had this death cycle if not kept fed. Interesting news. I've had luck with otto but i usually ensure they have been at the store at least 2 weeks before purchase - my oldest is around 3 years but i have a group with my pygmy in 40B; sadly i can't say for sure how many are in there these days because of the dense planting - they will eat some zuc but prefer not. Anyway point of this post - if they make it past 8 weeks they seem to live a while.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
Picture to show you the evolution :

20230521_142328.jpg
 

Eddy. E.

Member
Messages
74
Location
Germany
Just to let you know...
we have already imported many times Otocinclus hoppei, mimulus, mariae and Otothyropsis piribebuy etc. several times. There were about 500 catfish in one box, depending on the order. O. affinis cannot be obtained, as there are no commercial exports from where these fish occur.
We put the catfish on 2x 25 watt UVC, strong humic acid etc. and still more often about 70% of the catfish died to us. Not every time, but it just happened. There was nothing at all that could be done. The fish keeled over within 2-3 days. Depending on the season, they bring some kind of pathogen that causes the fish to die in a very short time.
However, when this time is over, the catfish are very stable. When transporting, moving and adapting these catfish are tricky.
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
Hi, so the candidi is still doing good, there is still some spots on him but less and less, still eating like a pig.

But, the oto is dead, treating him didn't help, and an other on in antoher tank died with the same stuff on his skin, didn't had time to treat him he looks like he was roting alive, very bad condition i had to help him go (his stomach was like open), his mate (wich is lot bigger) show some signs of the same issue on his skin so i just catch him to put in an hospital tank with meds, but i don't have much hope.

For the candidi, i think this is not a male and female, but 2 males...
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
Yeah and he is not the dominant one, maybe stress triggered the symptoms ?

I'll look for a female but it's gonna be challenging
 

Drakal

New Member
Messages
21
So the Taeniacara seems pretty much all good at this point, thanks for the advices. Next WC i'm probably going to move him in another tank since this is 2 males.

But the last Oto is dead, the 3 of them (1 was in a separate tank but they were quanrantained in the same tank and i dont use same tools to avoid cross-contamination or things like that) died the same way, pretty much like rotting alive (fuzzy stuff, then it was like theur skin was melting on some spots), meds (exit / malachite green) did nothing to help them saddly. I don't know what it is but the other fishes are all good in both tanks, could it be something specific to otos ?

Anyway, won't buy again ...

If you know someone in France/Europe who can sell me Taeniacara candidi (females) let me know ! I will avoid the shop where i bought them since he gets wrong everytime at forming couples (i have some wild bettas he also gave me 2 males), i don't want to end up with more males
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,186
Location
Germany
But the last Oto is dead, the 3 of them (1 was in a separate tank but they were quanrantained in the same tank and i dont use same tools to avoid cross-contamination or things like that) died the same way, pretty much like rotting alive (fuzzy stuff, then it was like theur skin was melting on some spots), meds (exit / malachite green) did nothing to help them saddly. I don't know what it is but the other fishes are all good in both tank, could it be something specific to otos ?
Yes, more or less Otocinclus-specific. Part of the side-effects of the transport conditions. Starvation lowers immune responses, any opportunistic bacteria will jump on the occasion.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,477
So the Taeniacara seems pretty much all good at this point, thanks for the advices. Next WC i'm probably going to move him in another tank since this is 2 males.

But the last Oto is dead, the 3 of them (1 was in a separate tank but they were quanrantained in the same tank and i dont use same tools to avoid cross-contamination or things like that) died the same way, pretty much like rotting alive (fuzzy stuff, then it was like theur skin was melting on some spots), meds (exit / malachite green) did nothing to help them saddly. I don't know what it is but the other fishes are all good in both tanks, could it be something specific to otos ?

Anyway, won't buy again ...

If you know someone in France/Europe who can sell me Taeniacara candidi (females) let me know ! I will avoid the shop where i bought them since he gets wrong everytime at forming couples (i have some wild bettas he also gave me 2 males), i don't want to end up with more males
otto are interesting if you can get a large group; the trick is buying them in a fashion where they will live. While shops (both mail order and local) can be dishonest if you can find one that can assure you they have been kept in qt or similar for at least 4 weeks they should be good to go. Certainly the ones where i've been successful in purchase have followed that formulae.
 

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