• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Newbie questions

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
I was informed on another forum that birds pooping on the roof might be a problem when collecting rainwater? Because the poop might have diseases if the birds eat fish?
We get gulls (and the occasional Heron) on our roof, but I agree with @gerald, theoretically it is possible, but so is being killed by a falling tree or winning the lottery (and the latter of these is actually much more likely than the former).
I'd continue the 10 minute flush before collection. Most debris and 'organics' should be flushed away by then.
Seems a sensible option.

cheers Darrel
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi,

I finally got my mattenfilter ("eck" -model) up and running for my main tank. Had to order from Germany, no such thing in Finland!
I could not use Mike W´s patented InstantInoculation™ technique because I did not have big enough bucket.

How long would you keep the old filter running along the mattenfilter?
Mattenfilter is powered by air.
Filter is at the moment 45 ppi but I have ordered a 20 ppi version.

I could squeeze my other sponge filters in front of the filter if that helps?

Tank is a 60 gallon:

5 Otocinclus
11 Black Neon´s
9 Cardinal tetras
1+3 Cacatuoides harem
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
I'd leave the old one running for a month to help fully colonize the new one. Actually I'd probably leave it running forever, if space is not a problem, so you'll always have a spare filter ready in case you need an emergency quarantine tank/bucket.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi,

A few questions:

Does peat filtered water cause any problems to mattenfilters? I always make waterchanges with peatwater that has peat particles floating. Would this habit speed up clogging of the filter?
How would you position the jetlifter? So that it points to the opposite corner at the far end of the tank?
What kind of power should I get from my air pump for a 60 gallon tank? I now have one that is apparently 300 Litres/hour.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
1. No, small amounts of floating peat particles won't significantly clog the mattenfilter.
2. Wherever you want to point it; it may depend on your plants and wood layout where you want the flow to go.
3. Mattenfilters work just fine even with very low flow. The air needed depends on the diameter of the lift tube and the height of the outlet above the water surface. Size of tank doesn't really matter, assuming this is for Apistos and other small fish.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi,

I got my new 20 PPI matt in the mail today. Should i replace my 45 PPI with it?
I figured the 45 will have more surface for the bacteria to grow but it might clog up faster.
And since mattenfilters work better the longer they run should I make the switch or try my luck with the 45 PPI?

If I do, here´s my plan:

Take out the old mat. Squeeze the contents into a bucket. Cut the new mat using the old one as a measure.
New matt in and cut the hole for the air lift.
Then squeeze a couple of old sponge filters also into the bucket and pour that mix in front of the new matt.
Or... I could pipette the bucket contents also if that would secure more bacteria into the new matt?

I have one of these also and I going to use it as well:
https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detail/2321/jbl-filterstart
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
Hi,

I got my new 20 PPI matt in the mail today. Should i replace my 45 PPI with it?
I figured the 45 will have more surface for the bacteria to grow but it might clog up faster.
Can you fit them both in the mattenfilter scaffold? If you can I'd do that for a couple of days, and then take the 45 PPI sponge out.

Because mattenfilters have a large surface area exposed to the oxygenated water (and air at the top), you don't have to worry about effective surface area, they always have enough.
Take out the old mat. Squeeze the contents into a bucket. Cut the new mat using the old one as a measure.
New matt in and cut the hole for the air lift.
Then squeeze a couple of old sponge filters also into the bucket and pour that mix in front of the new matt.
Or... I could pipette the bucket contents also if that would secure more bacteria into the new matt?

I have one of these also and I going to use it as well:
https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detail/2321/jbl-filterstart
Just wash out the 45 PPI sponge in the bucket, then swirl the new 20 PPI sponge plate in the bucket.

The filter start won't do any harm, but I'm dubious that they do any good, mainly because RNA evidence suggests that the key ammonia oxidising organisms are different under high and low ammonia loading.

cheers Darrel
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi all,Can you fit them both in the mattenfilter scaffold? If you can I'd do that for a couple of days, and then take the 45 PPI sponge out.
Unfortunately no. The scaffolding is too tight and both mats being 5 cm thick, it´s impossible.

dw1305 said:
The filter start won't do any harm, but I'm dubious that they do any good, mainly because RNA evidence suggests that the key ammonia oxidising organisms are different under high and low ammonia loading.

cheers Darrel
That´s mighty interesting Darrel, any links or scientific papers?
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
Unfortunately no. The scaffolding is too tight and both mats being 5 cm thick, it´s impossible.
I thought that might be the answer. I'd try the "swirl in the bucket" method.
That´s mighty interesting Darrel, any links or scientific papers?
I do, I think these should be available to every-one:
  1. "Aquarium Nitrification Revisited: Thaumarchaeota Are the Dominant Ammonia Oxidizers in Freshwater Aquarium Biofilters"<http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0023281#pone-0023281-g004>.
  2. "Temporal and Spatial Stability of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Bacteria in Aquarium Biofilters" <"http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0113515">.
  3. "Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Comammox Nitrospira" <"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5276851/">.
cheers Darrel
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi,

Does Sphagnum moss have the same potential to soften water as peat?
I have some in jar as I´m checking the effects on conductivity. So far (24 h) nada/zilch.
I bought some from a local garden center and planning to use it as a substrate.

Also, how long does it take to sink it? Would a bit of microwaving it with water do the trick?
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Yes, but both have only LIMITED potential to absorb hardness (mainly Ca and Mg ions). If your water hardness is more than about 4 dGH (70 mg/L) you probably won't notice any effect. I'm guessing that microwave treatment might burst the cells and reduce it's ion-exchange (softening) ability.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Yes, but both have only LIMITED potential to absorb hardness (mainly Ca and Mg ions). If your water hardness is more than about 4 dGH (70 mg/L) you probably won't notice any effect. I'm guessing that microwave treatment might burst the cells and reduce it's ion-exchange (softening) ability.
My tap is about 120µS. Water report quotes 1dGH and 4 dKH.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Based on those parameters, yes Sphagnum or peat should lower the GH. The KH is probably due to a pH-booster added at the water treatment plant to reduce pipe corrosion, possibly NaOH. You can neutralize that directly with acid, or just let the bacterial nitrification process neutralize it.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Based on those parameters, yes Sphagnum or peat should lower the GH. The KH is probably due to a pH-booster added at the water treatment plant to reduce pipe corrosion, possibly NaOH. You can neutralize that directly with acid, or just let the bacterial nitrification process neutralize it.
They are using CacO. Does nitrification work on that too? I guess because of that, the PH is 8,2 out of tap.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Calcium carbonate (chalk) should raise GH and KH in roughly equal amounts. Since their reported KH is 4x higher than GH, i'd guess something else is being added (or naturally present?) such as sodium bicarbonate, sodium hydroxide, etc that raises KH but not GH. Yes, nitrification will eventually neutralize all bases and KH. How quickly depends on your bio-load and feeding rate. More animals >> more ammonia >> more nitrification >> more acid to neutralize the bases.
 

ButtNekkid

Active Member
Hi,

Thanks for the explanation. I read somewhere that KH can never be higher than GH because KH is a part of GH?
 
Top