young mystery Agassizi's

[cootwarm]

I just picked up 3 agassizi's at my LFS. All he could tell me about them is that his wholesaler got them from a breeder in New Jersey. Being immature, this left me with 2 key questions:

1- What variety of agassizi?
2- How to determine the sex of these immature agassizi?

They are about 1 inch long, perhaps a little more. Typically they are mostly drab olivegreen/gray, with metallic blue markings on a mahogany background on their foreheads. Two usually have dark lateral lines and all 3 have dark spots near the tail. All 3 have white tips on the fins on the underside of their body towards the front. (Right below the fins they use to get around with). This is what color they usually are when foraging around the tank.

Every so often, one will swim in front of another and display. All the dark markings on the body disappear and are replaced with light gray background speckled with tiny metallic blue spots that seem to turn on and off or shimmer. The color of these blue spots that shimmer is very faint. This display of color only lasts a second or two, then it's back to foraging around the tank.

Can anyone tell what variety of agassizi these are by what I've described?
I fear that because all 3 have the markings on the forehead, that all 3 are males.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[cootwarm]

I took a few pictures today with my digital camera. Some came out pretty good. I wish I knew how to post them. A picture is a better description! :wink:

I guess I can't post them directly on my message. At least that's what I gathered from the FAQ on posting images. Although I see a couple messages that seem to have photo's imbedded. I have no server space available as far as I know.

Michael

 

[Discus Man]

Michael, several sites will do the hosting for you. You place your pics up there and link to them from here.
MSN will do it or several others.
You can also email them to me. I can post them somewhere.
PM me if you want my email address.

 

[apistodave]

hmmmmmmm Willhelmi?

 

[Discus Man]

Turns out the fish are nice examples of our new Apisto;

Apistogramma sp. "steel blue"
am asking Michael if he wats me to still post it up here.

 

[apistodave]

AHhhhhhhhh well I have wilhelmi on the brain

 

[Neil]

hmmmmmmm Willhelmi?

Interesting guess, Dave. I kind of eliminate that one from the runningjust because it was picked up at an LFS. Not that it is impossible, but it would drive me crazy if it happened. Kind of a "why not me that found that" thing!

AHhhhhhhhh well I have wilhelmi on the brain

You and me both. 8O

 

[jerseyjay]

All he could tell me about them is that his wholesaler got them from a breeder in New Jersey.

Do you know the breeder specifics ?

 

[cootwarm]

Jay,
I'll be checking with him tomorrow. I ordered a new trim piece for my 30 gal Long, it should be in.
I need to let him know it's not really an agassizi but an Apistogramma sp. "Blue Steel", a probable hybrid.


Everyone,
I'll definitely try to find out more of this New Jersey breeder his wholesaler got the Apisto's from, so we can find out where he got his from. Also if he has any females and if he bred them himself.

I read a few threads discussing this "Steel Blue" species from February, March, and May of this year of this year. Sounds like a fairly recent arrival as most of the references of it's origin seem to be speculation, rumours, and second hand info. I don't think I saw any posts that said "This is the absolute scoop on the Blue Steels". A lot of speculation as to the reason for the lack of females as well.

There is a post just today on this thread:
http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1153
heslipst thinks he found some females at an LFS in Milwaukee

Does anyone know of any concrete info on these Apisto's?
Are these males sterile?
Some think that it's a borelli hybrid. Does anyone know of anyone breeding these Blue Steel males with borelli females?

Michael

 

[cootwarm]

Jay,

I told my LFS guy about it. He was very upset that his wholesaler sold him a hybrid and told him it was agassizi. He had strong feelings about hybrids being passed off as the real thing. He was definitely going to dicuss it with his wholesaler. He thinks they probably bought them as agassizi and didn't know better, or didn't bother to check, or maybe didn't even care. I'll let you know what I find out.



Anyone else interested,

As for females, I was told that the "Steel Blue" was fairly common in the Montreal area a few years ago and there were a few females available but they were rare.

I'm going to donate mine to my wife's 55 gal community tank for decoration. They are fairly colorful now even thought they are very small. I'm curious as to how much more colorful they become when adults.
Being with just males, they probably won't achieve their peak colors, not having any females to impress. Although they are occasionally displaying to each other, but only for a second or two. It's kind of like someone flipped a switch on then off again. I'm not saying the colors are bright as they are still small, but the drab, green/gray body color turns light (kind of green/tan) with light blue speckles throughout and any dark markings on their bodies disappear. My curiousity keeps me from getting rid of them completely.

It's not really what I was looking for. There so are many, many species of real Apisto's that interest me, I don't want to waste valuable tank space raising hybrids anyhow! I'm not a purist as I'm not uncomfortable with selective breeding, but I feel like I have something fake or artificial with these hybrids. Kind of like plastic, pink Flamingo's. :wink:

Michael

 

[Moi_Eater]

I also purchased a trio of Apistogramma sp. similar to what you described at a LFS a month ago. They were being sold as A. cacatuoides but I knew that they weren't. I don't think the LFS knew any better.

I think the male and the smaller female attempted to breed but I didn't see any eggs. They were in a crevice under a piece of driftwood and kept other fish away. Not so long after the female got dark colored and weak then she died. Less than a week later the same thing happened to the male. I had the other female about one week more and she died the same way except I noticed some kind of bacterial infection on one side right behind the gills. They were all in the same tank with 3 "real" female cacs and those 3 are still doing great!

I am also not really interested in keeping these if they are hybrids, but keep us updated on what happens.

 

[cootwarm]

They're back!!

I stopped at 2 LFS today and both had some "agassizzi" Apistos that are actually sp. "Steel Blue". As usual, I don't think there was a single female at either LFS.

Michael