What to do now?

[MacZ]

Thanks.

Pulled the trigger on 12 more pencilfish today. First time in a looong time (since 2001) I order fish and actually first non-import order.

 

[Samala]

More eques?

For the lotus, have you considered potting it and fertilizing roots only within the pot? Makes it harder for fish to dig them out and cause havoc. Plus lotus roots tend to sprawl. My last one had roots thru the entire footprint of a 20 gallon long. It was a nightmare getting it out.

From looks of your tank you could easily hide a pot.

 

[MacZ]

More eques?

For the lotus, have you considered potting it and fertilizing roots only within the pot? Makes it harder for fish to dig them out and cause havoc. Plus lotus roots tend to sprawl. My last one had roots thru the entire footprint of a 20 gallon long. It was a nightmare getting it out.

From looks of your tank you could easily hide a pot.

Yes, more eques, only a pair of the original 10 has survived and while both are healthy, I see the male getting the female more and more stressed out as all his efforts are naturally all directed at her. I've been trying to find these fish locally for months to no success, so I finally decided I'll try shipping.

I have, but have decided against it for several reasons. I'm actually quite content with it growing slowly. Main problem is the light, not the nutrients. From the light factor I don't give it much of a chance.
It is also not that easy to hide a pot there as the area where I put it is not as big as you might think. And before I can't hide it the way I want, I rather leave it as is.

 

[anewbie]

Have you ever tried Coral Red Pencilfish ?

 

[MacZ]

Nope, out of my budget for fish I would want to keep in larger numbers. I've seen them labeled 24€ a piece. I can understand that for a bit over average apisto but not for a pencilfish.
By chance my first were the eques and I have fallen for them completely.

 

[MacZ]

Well, the Nannostomus arrived yesterday, all in quite good shape. No losses in transit and they gave me an extra. So now I have 15 of them. Sorry for the mediocre quality of the pictures, as per usual, the fish are quite skittish at the moment.

Sadly one of the two leftover grandpa-cardinals has passed yesterday aswell, it already had deteriorating health for a bit over a week and last night I found it almost dead on the bottom so I took it out and put it down. As there haven't been any changes to the stocking in months and from my experience with other fish before I'm confident it was just old age.

 

[MacZ]

 

[MacZ]

 

[MacZ]

Some Updates - November 2021

End September the A. hongsloi died, presumably a combination after having survived a heavy case of a bacterial infection in February including dropsy he had a diminished life expectancy. Fish was in top condition, showed some signs of age and then just dropped dead.

Beginning of October also the last remaining cardinal tetra kicked the bucket, having reached an overall age of 4 and a half, which is quite impressive for this species.

----
Beginning of November my Dad, who was my original fishkeeping mentor over 30 years ago, died as well. Cancer is a #@#%/$§!! I guess the fact that his fishkeeping was mentioned in the funeral speech even 15 years after giving away his last tanks says a lot.
----

This week I was lucky, though. A store just in reach had Dicrossus. Not only D. filamentosus, but also D. maculatus. Called them: The former were juveniles, so I'd have had to take a group, which, with only a 60x30cm tank and the tank upgrade (to 80x35x40) only in January or February was kind of a risk. The latter were a fully grown pair and knowing D. maculatus grow a bit large than D. filamentosus I decided to rather not cram them in here. And then just by chance: In a tank with wild caught crenicara was an adult male Dicrossus filamentosus. Likely bycatch. I got that one and will be expanding to a 1:2 group in January when the new tank is running.

For the Europeans: The store gets their fish from Ruinemans in NL. That means the fish were quarantined and dewormed by the wholesaler already, plus 4 weeks quarantine at the store. Always good to know how they treat the fish.

Here some (admittedly bad) pictures, about 24h after adding the fish to the tank. He's eating, no obvious signs of disease or parasites.

 

[MacZ]

Latest iteration of the tank. Bit more botanicals, bit less plants.

 

[MacZ]

Look who's colouring up nicely.
Caudal fin markings point toward the Rio Negro population btw.

 

[rasmusW]

Looking good Mac!!

-r

 

[MacZ]

Thanks!

 

[MacZ]

So, yesterday I finally got to do my tank upgrade. It all went smoothely. Just... the Dicrossus didn't make it. My mistake and I'm beating myself up all day for it.
I didn't check all parameters before moving the fish from storage to the new tank. TDS, EC, Temp... everything matched. Except pH.
Going from 4.5 pH to between 5.5 and 6 is... yeah... well, maybe not healthy. The fish succumbed to a bacterial infection within less than 24 hours. That's true blackwater fish for you.

Nevertheless... here the tank.





I'll be getting in a group of juvenile checkerboards on friday.

 

[Ben Rhau]

Really sorry to hear about your Dicrossus. I would not have thought the pH would matter that much, especially since so many aquarists plop/drop into the aquarium from the shipping bag. I thought the only danger was going from high TDS to low TDS.

That said, I have lost a couple pencil fish moving from one tank to another with virtually the same parameters, so maybe moving is just inherently stressful.

The new tank looks great. How many juvenile or adult Dicrossus do you think will work in that size?

 

[MacZ]

Really sorry to hear about your Dicrossus.

Thanks. I'm still mad at myself.

I would not have thought the pH would matter that much, especially since so many aquarists plop/drop into the aquarium from the shipping bag. I thought the only danger was going from high TDS to low TDS.

It's definitely a different thing when you have a fish that sat in a shipping bag for days or in a ventilated vat for only a few hours. more than 1.5 pH points difference are hard on the fish, plus all the stress... There was a minor bacteria bloom the first few hours after the set up, I think that has been the actual cause.

That said, I have lost a couple pencil fish moving from one tank to another with virtually the same parameters, so maybe moving is just inherently stressful.

It can always happen.

The new tank looks great.

Thanks again!

How many juvenile or adult Dicrossus do you think will work in that size?

If they still got the juveniles I saw two weeks ago I could easily fit 6-8. Adults, though... the footprint is 80x35cm, so I would probably say 2-3 females + one male. But these juveniles were tiny. So I can't tell the sexes yet and the more I take the more likely I get more than one male. Any case which would mean catching out fish at a later point from a by then hopefull matured tank stresses me just by thought of it.
I guess I'll be going with 4-5 and then see what becomes of them.

And until then I'll be getting water parameters back where I want them. Adding homemade botanical extracts has already brought them back close to where I had them in the old tank.

 

[MacZ]

Until then: Enjoy

 

[Ben Rhau]

It's definitely a different thing when you have a fish that sat in a shipping bag for days or in a ventilated vat for only a few hours.

Sure, you’re putting the fish in better water than the shipping bag, but my thought here is that the fish experiences an instantaneous jump in pH going from the bag the tank, quite often by more than 1 pH unit. That’s usually not lethal, so I don’t think you can blame yourself for that.

There was a minor bacteria bloom the first few hours after the set up, I think that has been the actual cause.

If the new tank was newly set up, there are definitely more factors you can’t control. People move tanks all the time, but this can happen. Tough break.

But these juveniles were tiny. So I can't tell the sexes yet and the more I take the more likely I get more than one male.

I’m planning out a 20 gallon tank in a few months with the aim of keeping D. filamentosa with Epiplatys annulus, and have the same issue with sexing. I can readily find juveniles, not so easy to get pairs at the moment.

 

[kgazos]

Sorry for the being a bit out of context but depending on your location I think you can find A. ortegai. Ruinemans - wholesaler company- has them right now, wild caught as well. You can see on their site the fish stores that they work with. If any of them is near you you can contact the store and order the fish. That’s the only way, at least for me here in Greece, to get rare fishes that would have never appeared here.

 

[MacZ]

Sure, you’re putting the fish in better water than the shipping bag, but my thought here is that the fish experiences an instantaneous jump in pH going from the bag the tank, quite often by more than 1 pH unit. That’s usually not lethal, so I don’t think you can blame yourself for that.

It's not that the pH difference itself was lethal. It amplified the stress level and made it susceptable to an infection. That's my point.

If the new tank was newly set up, there are definitely more factors you can’t control. People move tanks all the time, but this can happen. Tough break.

I basically only replaced the glass box and lights, added some botanicals and more substrate. Everything else was already in the tank or running in it (like heater and filter). I know there's always the possibility something goes very wrong. And the fact I had no losses from the pencils makes me think the Dicrossus really was too finnicky.

I’m planning out a 20 gallon tank in a few months with the aim of keeping D. filamentosa with Epiplatys annulus, and have the same issue with sexing. I can readily find juveniles, not so easy to get pairs at the moment.

For a twenty you really can only go with a pair. True.

Sorry for the being a bit out of context but depending on your location I think you can find A. ortegai. Ruinemans - wholesaler company- has them right now, wild caught as well. You can see on their site the fish stores that they work with. If any of them is near you you can contact the store and order the fish. That’s the only way, at least for me here in Greece, to get rare fishes that would have never appeared here.

The place I got my Dicrossus from also buys at Ruinemans and I live maybe an hour from their headquarters (although with a border inbetween). But honestly... Not interested in A. ortegai at the moment.
I only have this one tank (the old one is going to a friend), and I'm not planning on getting more than an additional 40 liter tank as a QT and in case the juvenile Dicrossus turn out to be more males than females.