territory size

[TheCroust]

hello, just wondering if anyone can give me a rough idea how large the territories are likely to be for agassizi and cacatuoides? we have a 200L tank and were thinking about getting a pair of each. There's plenty of cover, plants, wood etc. any advice would be appreciated
thanks

 

[dw1305]

Hi and welcome,
It really depends on the floor area of the tank and how complex the habitat is. In the case of the tank in the photo, it certainly shows promise as an Apisto tank, but I think it really needs a lot more structure, dead leaves, plants (I really like "java" moss), caves etc. I think in that case it could support 2 pairs with some more structure, but as both A. agassizi and A. cacatuoides are potentially harem forming my suggestion would be a male and several females of either species.

Have a look at ApistoBob's web pages on species and tank maintenance, Bob is a member on this forum and they are a great resource. Web site http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php.

cheers Darrel (UK nr. Bath)

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

I also agree that it needs much more cover on the ground. May I also suggest that you have a build up of rock, caves and driftwood on the right and one on the left, with a small free space so to speak in the midllce, thus you create 2 possible territories. I would also suggest oak leaves and ground cover. Also agree to get 1M to 2-3 F. keep us posted cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[TheCroust]

thanks for all that. I must say I've never thought of using dead leaves as cover, would you just scald them to sterilise them? I have since added a few rocks to the left side and a cave using a piece of slate, still trying to work something out for the right. The piece of bogwood you can see on the right has lots of protruding 'legs' underneath it which kind of form caves but I did wonder if it needed more. If anyone could post a picture so I can get an idea of how stuff to put on there, that would be really useful
thanks

 

[Smitginia12]

Is it OK to use mulched leaves for cover for new grass seed?

I have some leaves that have been mulched (by lawn mower.) I just seeded a bare spot, but don't want to pay for excelsior or straw. The leaves are free - are they OK to use?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
"TheCroust", you want fallen leaves from Oak, Beech, Loquat etc. or you can buy "Indian Almond" leaves. I just give mine a quick rinse and pop them straight in the tank.

I like half coconuts shells for caves, I buy a coconut, saw it in half, peel the coconut flesh out, and cut a V shaped notch in the rim of the shell, put it in the tank. Less than 10 minutes from a whole coconut to 2 "Apisto" caves. You can plant them with java moss fern etc. Small clay pots inverted and with a notch in the rim are also good. I've also used bits of plastic drainage pipe, usually a right angle "bend" with one end blocked off. These can be covered with sand or bark but it does tend to flake over time (you can see one in the bottom right of the first photo).

I like loads of cover, but you don't need to go quite this far if you don't want to. (Both from Bob's web site).

and

.

cheers Darrel

 

[TheCroust]

that's great, ta. I've just been out and collected a bagful of large oak leaves, they're currently soaking as the first time I put them in the tank (after scalding them), they floated. I've shifted the decor in the tank around now and added a few extra rocks. Some of the caves are not visible in the picture as they're behind things, but there are quite a few now.
Also the plants in the photo have only been planted for about 3 weeks so hopefully they'll grow into a decent amount of cover. I will be getting more though, I like heavily planted tanks anyway. getting some java moss later as well.
Afraid I've had to add the cacatuoides slightly earlier than I'd planned as my girlfriends' mother is replacing her tank, they were in there and needed somewhere to go. The Agassizis aren't too happy with them at the moment, but am I right in thinking they'll settle their territorial disputes after a while, they've only been in 2 days? Breaking up the ground area has helped a lot though.

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

you are on the correct track. The leaves will float till they get soaked themselves. Just place them in the tank as is and they will sink naturally. The sqables will stop after each Apisto has worked out a territory. The more hidding spots and caves you have the better and also try to keep the line of sight for the fish at a minimum. I would also build up the area on the right of the photo, like moving the driftwood from the floor, up against the glass, but that is just a personal choice. Good work. cheers jk and I am sure the leaves will make it look perfect :biggrin:

 

[TheCroust]

well here's the latest incarnation, it now has java moss and oak leaves. some of them havn't sunk yet as you can see, the apistos have now sorted out territories though so I'm happy. For some reason, however, pH has got high. I'm sure I havn't got any rocks in there that could have it, might it be aquatic compost? there's a small amount of it where the anubias are rooting..
thanks for all the advice.:biggrin:

 

[bigbird]

Hi from downunder,

Good work, high PH could be from the rocks, make sure you have sandstone etc and no slate or shells. High PH can also come from the driftwood, as sometimes these are taken from salt water areas. Would suggest 2 things, 1. Check your tap water PH values and 2. Change 30% of the water every 3 days for 2 weeks.Just for a heads up, if you wish to breed, the tetras and barbs that you have are excellent fry hunters, so look out for that.

have fun and keep us posted.cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Congrats., looks very good now. I'd agree with "Bigbird" prescription. I would also be quite interested in the "holey" rocks, they have a "hard limestone" look about them.
cheers Darrel

 

[TheCroust]

Hello again. Regarding the rock, I did have one in there that suspiciously metal-looking veins running though it so I took that out. We did another test and it appears to have dropped. My girlfriend's always claiming that I'm a bit colourblind as well! she reckoned it was no higher than about 7.6-7.8. I know our water supply's slightly on the alkaline side anyway, going to do a fairly large water change in a day or so as well, we'll see what happens.
The apistos definitely have their own territories now, settled in and enjoying all the extra caves and things. As for the tiger barbs and the rainbow fish, they're getting moved into a new tank in a couple of weeks. I'm wondering what to put in as a free-swimming shoal, I'm going to keep this tank south american. Any suggestions? Tetras all seem to be fairly nippy, did have some serpaes for a bit but they turned into really nasty little things, nearly all the fish have got bits missing from their fins now so I moved them. Even the tiger barbs got it...
Maybe hatchet fish?

cheers

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
As well as the pH, you really need to know either the reserve of carbonate buffer (KH or carbonate hardness) of the well water, and ideally the conductivity (either as microSiemens or TDS). If it has a large reserve of buffer (high KH) it will be difficult to lower the pH, and this will limit the range of Apisto's that can breed successfully (or for the more black water species even maintain long term).

Dithers certainly can be Hatchets, Marbled Hatchets are probably the best bet, for long term maintenance it helps to have a year round supply of mosquito larvae or fruit flies, the wingless fruit-fly cultures are best.

Have a search through the threads on this forum for "dithers", I keep Black Neons successfully with my Cacs, good as both dithers and robust enough to be target fish as well. At the moment I've also got some Pristella's (X-ray Tetra), and they are much less successful, as they are stay nearer the bottom, and they are great fry hunters. I really like Serpae Tetras, but as you suggest they are little "Piranha", and not suitable as dithers.

Pencil fish would be most peoples choice as dithers, attractive, stay near the top and have small mouths.

cheers Darrel

 

[TheCroust]

further developments - realised that 2 of the rocks were probably limestone but because one was red I didn't think it would be. It was the fossils that gave them away - doh! taken them out so we'll see what happens, I'll do a test in a day or so.
also found this crazy piece of driftwood which breaks up the territories nicely, and added a small shoal of dwarf pencilfish and some rummynose tetras, they all seem to be totally peaceful, if a bit freaked out at the minute..

thanks for all the help

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Looking very good, as long as the fish are looking happy, I'd probably try and keep tank maintenance to a minimum and let them get on with it. Nice varied diet and they should be spawning in no time (grindal worms are good for conditioning and low maintenance if you can get a starter culture?). I change about 10% of the water every day, but other than that I try to avoid regular pruning or filter cleaning, and I never syphon or stir the bottom up etc. Dependent upon the hardness of the water, it may be that the cacatuoides will spawn successfully, but the water will be too hard for the agassizii eggs to develop successfully.

Your red rocks could have been limestone, or they may be sandstone (these are often red, can contain fossils and be calcareous, but are often inert). If the pH carries on rising, I'm still not sure about the "holey rock" at the front. If you can get some "limescale cleaner", have a scrape at the rocks, and when it is dry pour a small volume of the cleaner onto the scraped area. If there are carbonates in the rock, the acid in the cleaner will react with them and carbon dioxide bubbles will appear. No bubbles means that it is not limestone.

cheers Darrel

 

[bigbird]

Well done indeed. Looks great, so now let it settle and wait and see. Be cautious of the rummy nose, they are also good fry catchers. Feed some live foods and it should work. cheers jk :biggrin:

 

[TheCroust]

hmm..so everything was going smoothly, but then the cacs decided they wanted more territory and set about the task of acquiring it. Gradually they claimed more and more caves, then about 2 days ago they finally ousted the agassizis from the last corner they had managed to cling to.
How bad is this? the agassizis don't look very happy..
Fortunately our new, larger tank is about to be completed so hopefully in a week or so, one way or the other, they'll no longer have to deal with their expansionist neighbours.. I would have thought there was plenty of space for all of them in the other tank. just thought I'd tell you all about it.