spawning Dicrosus Filamentosus

[lucky_13]

I bought a male and female of these a little while ago. actually, i bought two that both turned out to be male, and the dominate male killed the sub dominate male, then i had to wait about a month to get an actual female. but now i have one of each. they haven't officially paired off yet, but i'm hoping they will. right now i have them in a 20g long with ember tetras and an atya gabonensis (giant blue fan shrimp aka vampire shrimp) i have peat in the filters, and i condition the change water for about 48 hours in a 5g bucket with peat, an air stone, and a heater. i also have low light with lots of large rocks forming caves and java ferns, moss, and crypts.

once my two pair off, i plan to move them to a 10g and start using RO water instead of tap and see if i can get them to spawn. any advice is welcome. i've never spawned ANYTHING but guppies, so this is definately a challenege. how should i set up their 10g once they pair up? bare bottom? caves? flat rocks? what pH should i shoot for? what temp? what kind of water change schedule?

 

[Mike Wise]

First, D. filamentosus does not form bonded pairs. It is a "casually polygamous" species: the male will breed with any female who is filled with eggs and is near him. Second, this species is not a cave spawner. It usually lays its eggs on the top of a broad leaf or piece of wood. This species is not the easiest species to reproduce. It requires acid & very soft water. A good starting point is using water < pH 5.5 and water with < 5º dGH & <2º dKH, <50 µS/cm @ 77ºF/25ºC. Feed heavily with live and meaty frozen foods. Add a little patience (females are not as attentive as female apistos) and some luck, and you should do well.

 

[freshwaterfishfan]

And Very Small Fry

And in my experience, the fry are very small and sometimes too small for BBS. I've found greenwater to be useful the first couple of days.
Steve

 

[lucky_13]

there's a guy in the fish club here who bought 10 of these and the females killed each other until he only had one male and one female left. that is why i only got one female. she's also wild caught and from what i've read, her bright red ventral fins indicate that she has spawned before. the male is about twice her size, but he still hasn't shown the beautiful finnage and color of an adult male in a breeding mood. he has the pointed lyre tail, but the points are short. i was told this is because he didn't have a female to show off to before.

my tap water here has about 7.4pH, and around 5kH. so i plan to start getting RO water and adding peat

 

[lucky_13]

also, how will i know if the female is holding eggs? what does spawning behavior look like?

 

[Mike Wise]

he has the pointed lyre tail, but the points are short. i was told this is because he didn't have a female to show off to before.

also, how will i know if the female is holding eggs? what does spawning behavior look like?

He doesn't have long caudal extensions because he either lost them in shipment or is simply very young.

The female develops a dark black lateral band when she is tending eggs/fry. The eggs are usually easily seen on the top of a leaf or piece of wood.

 

[Apistomaster]

The females eat their eggs more often than not.

 

[lucky_13]

they may eat them because they're infertile. since cichlids tend to be very good parents, if a cichlid eats its eggs, it might be because they are infertile or have some other problem we can't see, especially since infertility seems to be a big problem with checkerboards anyway.

 

[Mike Wise]

D. filamentosus females actually are not very good parents. I've had females fan eggs while another fish was behind her eating the eggs! It might be due to the extreme biotopes in which they live in the wild. Very few fish can cope with them, so there are fewer egg/fry predators.

 

[Apistomaster]

Here is a pair of Dicrossus filamentosus ready to spawn.

Then a shot of the female guarding her new clutch of eggs. Notice the brood color pattern.

They will spawn in fairly hard water with a pH of 7.6 but the eggs won't hatch.
I don't think infertility is the problem but rather water conditions. Those Mike out lined will produce results but extreme cleanliness is important, too.
Their eggs seem sensitive to common antifungals used in artificial hatching. The best results occur when a female does take care of her spawn. Unfortunately, that is rare. The majority of the time she eats them within 24 hours.
I am starting over with another group. I lost the breeders in this photo in an abrupt and excessive drop in pH. My fault.
I don't find females that hard on one another but I never keep a trio in anything smaller than a 20 Long.
My current group of seven in a 35 have spawned but the males are still not fully grown, just breedable. I plan to give a pair a 29H to themselves this time around and will not use anything but KetaPeat to lower the pH of the RO water. I plan to try 25 ppm T.D.S.
The larvae are very small; brine shrimp nauplii are too large for a first food.
Green water is probably a good idea but because of cleanliness issues, I am going to rely on what the larvae can find in the tank among the clumps of Java Moss. I bought Mini-Cysts from www.jehmco.com. They do seem to be much smaller than Utah brine shrimp nauplii and I'm hoping they will help bridge the gap between microorganisms and reg brine shrimp. I will remove the eggs and place them in a net breeder in the spawning tank. Once they go free swimming I am going to drop the water level to ~6 inches. Parent fish will be removed.

The fish I have now share the 35 gal with 8 juvenile discus about 1-1/4", six Corydoras duplicareous. six Hyphessobrycon roseus, two Nannostomus eques and a pair of red whiptail cats, L10a.
Why I mention this is because the female that spawned vigorously kept all the fish away from her eggs for two days. This is the best brood care I have witnessed with D. filamentosus. I have been revisited breeding them about six times since I first had them spawn for me in 1970. I really like them but they are among the most challenging of fish I have ever worked with when it comes to raising fry.

 

[Apistomaster]

I was mistaken about this female that has been guarding eggs had eaten or lost them. She is guarding larvae she has placed on the sand. There is only ~1/4 inch of sand and the tank has two large potted Amazon Swords; her eggs were laid near one of the leaf tips.
It was not a planned spawn for me. They are in tap water with a pH of 7.4 and TDS of ~340 ppm. I am more convinced than ever that the female's care is the most important factor when it comes to getting D. filamentosus hatches.

 

[Lisachromis]

Congrats! I won't be seeing this behaviour myself as me 'female' decided to grow some tail fin extensions and show me that she was a he after over a year! Three males will not get me any fry. Will have to look out for more I guess.

 

[Mike Wise]

I always look for fish with red ventrals among wild fish. That's a female for sure.

 

[Apistomaster]

I find unsexed and unspawned young females usually have clear ventrals but otherwise, I look for females by using the red ventrals.
I just set up a trio in a bare bottom 29H. I added drift wood, petrified wood and Anubias barteri to furnish the tank.
Now I'm beginning to add RO water along with a media bag filled with Keta-peat to lower the pH. I left the spawning group of Corydoras sterbai in with them as my dithers.
Now it's a matter of time and black worms and maybe I'll be giving that female with apparently pretty good brooding instincts a fair chance to display her skills.

 

[Apistomaster]

This group is still pretty new and not as well conditioned as the breeders in the photos I posted previously. They haven't yet been dewormed yet so I also added 5% flubendazole powder to their water. This not only will help the fish but suppress a potential Hydra bloom as I begin feeding them brine shrimp nauplii in addition to the black worms.
I use flubendazole for Hydra control more frequently than I use it to treat for parasites. This stuff has been a boon for me. I have never had Hydra problems in the past but I have ever since I set up my latest fish room. Once I begin feeding brine shrimp, it isn't long before the Hydra take over and they can really cause high losses among fry.
The tank has a large pedestal type Sponge filter.
I am keeping them at at 82*F.

 

[Apistomaster]

In inspirational photo from a friend in Greece.

 

[filamentosa]

lost ventrals

I keep 15 juvenile D. filamentosus in a 60 liter tank. I seem to have only one male. I noticed, however, that a couple of them have lost their ventral fins entirely. I have not noticed any clashes. They seem to be totally peaceful to each other. The only other species present is a shoal of Nannostomus trifasciatus. Have you experienced anything like that?

I have 2 older males in another tank. Now I added 1 female from the above mentioned ones. Its ventrals are ok and definitely are blood red. The males immediately started courting.