Mixing Borellii phenotypes.

[Memeboi]

So I have been looking at a website that sells Dwarf Cichlids, and they actually recently have stocked a subvariety of A. Borellii from the Pantanal/Paraguay River these fish have a markedly different phenotype to the Opal variety, and, knowing that the Opal variety often has challenges with inbreeding, I think it may be wise to insert genetic diversity by adding genes from a less "domesticated", line. Any thoughts on the matter?

 

[MacZ]

A. borellii "Opal" is a "cf."-species, so although the genetics are not completely analyzed it's likely a different or subspecies, which means it's more than just a phenotype difference. Means you are hybridizing if you do that, not mixing in a wild type into a domestic strain. The inbreeding problem is not present in specimens on this side of the pond. Possible you are dealing with an isolated captive population?

Also they occur naturally in the same vast riversystem of the De la Plata.
Look at the map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Río_de_la_Plata_Basin
The Pantanal is a wetland region in the north, formed by the Rio Paraguay.

Pantanal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mike Wise]

Presently Opal is merely a trade name for any more colorful specimen with a lot of red on its face. This feature is found on specimens in many populations along the Rio Paraguay/Parana. Most in the commercial trade are just more colorful domestic bred strains of whatever A. borellii populations were put together. Now for some fun facts:

1. The original Opal was developed in the 1960s in the DDR (East Germany) and had red, blue, yellow - and green (not seen in any Opals now). As far as I know, none of the original strain exists anymore.

2. I consider A. borellii a 'superspecies' in which different populations are now becoming - or have become - separate species. Like the many species of A. agassizii they will interbreed successfully if they cannot breed with one of their own population/species.

 

[Memeboi]

Presently Opal is merely a trade name for any more colorful specimen with a lot of red on its face. This feature is found on specimens in many populations along the Rio Paraguay/Parana. Most in the commercial trade are just more colorful domestic bred strains of whatever A. borellii populations were put together. Now for some fun facts:

1. The original Opal was developed in the 1960s in the DDR (East Germany) and had red, blue, yellow - and green (not seen in any Opals now). As far as I know, none of the original strain exists anymore.

2. I consider A. borellii a 'superspecies' in which different populations are now becoming - or have become - separate species. Like the many species of A. agassizii they will interbreed successfully if they cannot breed with one of their own population/sp

Well, Ignoring the obvious problem, do you think that mixing a different population/subspecies would result in viable, and genetically healthy offspring? I ask this question knowing that it is technically a form of hybridization. But if it is a hybrid, would it still be phenotypically normal looking?

 

[Memeboi]

The inbreeding problem is not present in specimens on this side of the pond. Possible you are dealing with an isolated captive population?

Well I mostly just hear about the inbreeding problem from people like you, and from experience, the fish are decently hardy, but definitely could do with more genetic diversity.

 

[Memeboi]

Now, a lot of what i am thinking about also relates to an idea I have had for a while, basically setting up a 40 gallon tank with a dwarf cichlid "colony", of sorts, similar to the one presented in This thread .

 

[anewbie]

Well, Ignoring the obvious problem, do you think that mixing a different population/subspecies would result in viable, and genetically healthy offspring? I ask this question knowing that it is technically a form of hybridization. But if it is a hybrid, would it still be phenotypically normal looking?

Unless you are buying wc borelli or f1/f2 they are likely domestic and more or less the same despite different colouring.

 

[MacZ]

Well, Ignoring the obvious problem, do you think that mixing a different population/subspecies would result in viable, and genetically healthy offspring? I ask this question knowing that it is technically a form of hybridization. But if it is a hybrid, would it still be phenotypically normal looking?

First question: Likely viable. Second question: Phenotype unpredictable.

Well I mostly just hear about the inbreeding problem from people like you, and from experience, the fish are decently hardy, but definitely could do with more genetic diversity.

A. borellii are quite often wild caught and mostly wild type over here. Thus I don't count them in the same grouping of overbred domestic strains as A. cacatuoides or A. macmasteri variants.

Unless you are buying wc borelli or f1/f2 they are likely domestic and more or less the same despite different colouring.

If you define domestic as tankbred for multiplication and not as selective breeding. Domestic mostly has the connotation of linebred for colour or shapes.