Apistogramma & Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi in 75G Together

[datemike]

Hello everyone,

I am outlining a stocking plan for a 75g tank that I have been planting and decorating. When I am finished planting and cycling after about 5-6 weeks, I will be introducing my fish.

Stock Plan:
x10 Pangio Kuhlii (these are introduced first)
x20 Red Eye Tetra (introduced a week and half after the kuhlii)
x1 King Tiger Pleco (introduced same week as tetra)
x5 German Blue Ram (introduced last, ~2 weeks after kuhlii)

My main question:
1. Can I put in a group of Apistogramma in here that would thrive with the rest of the fish and not create a disaster with the rams?

I've read a few posts on here before joining and noticed that people here do indeed keep Apisto with rams, even in smaller tanks than mine like a 55g. My concern here is that I have been getting nothing but conflicting information from the subreddits I've been posting and researching on over at reddit. I've been outright told there's no way you can keep a group of rams with a group of apisto, no matter the size of the tank or the size of the schools. I'm fairly sure this is not correct, so that's why I'm here.

My other questions:
2. What is the ideal temp for the stock plan I have outlined? (Rams thrive around 85-86F but I will likely stick to 80-83F to not stress out the tetra too much, thoughts on this?)
3. What ratio of males to female should I have in my blue ram school? ( after researching I was led to believe 1 male and a 4 female harem would work)
4. If I can include Apisto, what variety would you suggest and what size school and gender ratio?
5. Does anyone have experience with shrimp in their tanks with rams/apisto? I have read posts about people keeping cherry shrimp somehow with rams which sounds hard to believe. I've seen people talk about keeping Amano which are a tad bigger with them successfully as well.
6. What plants are you keeping with your Dwarf Cichlids?
7. Do any of you have any other stocking plan suggestions that you would choose over what I have outlined? I'd love to hear other people's ideas and how they'd set up a tank this size.


INFO:
75G Aqueon
Fluval Stratum
Black Diamond Blasting Sand
Anubias, Java Fern/Moss, Sword Plant, Bacopa
Driftwood+River Rock Ornamentation

 

[MacZ]

About the Stocking:

I'd completely rethink it.
First of all here a thread about catfish in dwarf cichlid tanks.

Catfish in Apisto Tanks

What are good choices of catfish for an Apisto tank? I was thinking more along the lines of an algae eater or something to clean up uneaten food. Most Cories seem too large or meddlesome.

apistogramma.com

Rules out the pleco and the Pangio sp. The latter because they basically fall in the same category as Corydoras and loaches.

Additionally the temperatures:
Are the Mikrogeophagus a must? If so tailor the tank AND the tankmates to them. M. ramirezi nowerdays are pretty much all tankbred and quite different from the wild fish. That does in this case NOT mean they are more resilient. Quite the opposite. Due to bad genetics and mass production you get a fish that is fuzzy about water parameters beyond temperature and very prone to stress. And stress is a dwarf cichlid killer.
They require low pathogen counts in the water. You can achieve this by either using very soft water (low conductivity) like RO or rainwater or by using a 30+ watt UV sterilizer. If you can, choose the soft water, the sterilizer has negative side effects. Temperature should stay in a range of 27-29°C.
The other fish should fit these requirements. Best chances are in species from the Rio Negro and Orinoco regions, close to the Equator.
The Moenkhausia you picked are almost subtropical and require lower temperatures.

3. What ratio of males to female should I have in my blue ram school? ( after researching I was led to believe 1 male and a 4 female harem would work)

You want a display tank, yes? Then Males only. Applies to the M. ramirezi and any prospective Apistogramma.

4. If I can include Apisto, what variety would you suggest and what size school and gender ratio?

The combination of two species of dwarf cichlid requires a lot of space, very good structure and a well chosen combination of species. Again: Males only.
I would not use a tank with less than 200x60cm footprint, maybe even 250x70. And frankly, I wouldn't do it. At least not with M. ramirezi as one of the species in question.
The possible species I have hinted at above, I'd have to look up the exact species that share the habitat with M. ramirezi so it would be best to ask Mike or Frank.

5. Does anyone have experience with shrimp in their tanks with rams/apisto? I have read posts about people keeping cherry shrimp somehow with rams which sounds hard to believe. I've seen people talk about keeping Amano which are a tad bigger with them successfully as well.

Neocaridina are great live food, Amano shrimp don't like soft water. I find shrimp don't belong in a tank with dwarf cichlids.

6. What plants are you keeping with your Dwarf Cichlids?

Nymphaea lotus, Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Limnobium laevigatum, Salvinia auriculata, Epipremnum aureum (emersed only). Only the Nymphaea are planted in the substrate. Rest is floating and/or growing above the water line, respectively. I picked them practically. All of them or similar plants are found in South America, they all can do with minimal amounts of fertilizer and soft water and they are excellent in shaing off the tank. The Epipremnum and the Salvinia are also excellent in terms of biological filtration.

7. Do any of you have any other stocking plan suggestions that you would choose over what I have outlined? I'd love to hear other people's ideas and how they'd set up a tank this size.

I'd scratch doing two species of dwarf cichlid.

Provided you are still set on the Mikrogeophagus:

- You could pick any tetra up to 5cm from any South American equatorial river system.
A group of 15-20 would be a good start. If you decide against other fish in the open water and are fine with a single species you can go up to 30.
- If you want two species in the open water, consider 10-15 pencil or hatchetfish.
- 1, 3 or 5 male dwarf cichlids of one species (count in roughly 30-60cm diameter per territory provided the tank is structured accordingly.
- If you stick to one species and males only, some people would say a group of 10 Corydoras would work. I personally would not, but that's me
- Replacing the pleco you could choose small Loricarids of the twig or lizard groups e.g. Rhineloricaria. Also possible: Otothyropsis or Parotocinclus haroldoi. But not Otocinclus proper. (Because of the temperature.)

And a last remark: I'm pretty confident in my opinion that a combination of fine sand and lots of leaf litter make for the best dwarf cichlid substrate you can imagine.

 

[datemike]

thank you for the in depth reply. this was a lot of information and you answered everything, i really appreciate that.

i am not set on rams. i'm mostly set on the kuhlii and the red eye tetra.

with what you linked the issues with kuhlii are:
1. similar to cory where they need a large footprint to not compete and bother the cichlids which they partially share the same area of the tank with.
2. it's possible to keep cory and dwarf cichlid together but it's not something you'd personally do.
3. kuhli are also partially nocturnal so they can potentially disturb the cichlids sleep patterns.

in the link you provided you suggested that a group of corydora would work out well with dwarf cichlid given that the footprint of the aquarium was "100/120x50/60cm". i do have a larger footprint tank though at 125x50cm. since cory are also partially nocturnal though (i know they are very active during day but cory are very active at night as well). would the kuhli not be that much of a difference here from the cory that you suggested?

if that's the case, i'm wondering if i could forgo the rams and instead choose between keeping a single species of either cacatuoides or agassizii. if i go switch to apistogramma, the red eye should be at a good temperature range that is compatible i believe. i understand now that the mikrogeophagus like to sift sand, hence the name, and would be put off by competing with the kuhli which do the same.

and to give you an idea of how i am planting my tank:
driftwood sits along the entire length of the aquarium. i am planting java fern and anubias over this driftwood so they have to send roots past the driftwood into the substrate, making a sort of mangrove root system. i was hoping this would create plenty of places for kuhli to thrive while leaving the rocks, and plants near the floor and bottom-mid tank hopefully to cichlids.

is there a way to keep 5 male cacatuoides or agassizii along with 10 kuhli and the red eye school in that setup?

lastly, i will have to forgo the king tiger, thank you for letting me know about them being the loud neighbors that can't keep quiet at night. i was already sort of looking into whiptail and twig catfish so this is a good thing. i have read though that solitary farlowella tend to do poorly. do you have an idea on how many farlowella i'd keep in this tank with the other mates? do i keep multiple farlowella and an extra whiptail even or is that too much bottom floor competition?

again, thank you for taking your time and showing me your beautiful tank.

 

[MacZ]

i am not set on rams. i'm mostly set on the kuhlii and the red eye tetra.

Allright, that's a good starting point.

with what you linked the issues with kuhlii are:
1. similar to cory where they need a large footprint to not compete and bother the cichlids which they partially share the same area of the tank with.
2. it's possible to keep cory and dwarf cichlid together but it's not something you'd personally do.
3. kuhli are also partially nocturnal so they can potentially disturb the cichlids sleep patterns.

in the link you provided you suggested that a group of corydora would work out well with dwarf cichlid given that the footprint of the aquarium was "100/120x50/60cm". i do have a larger footprint tank though at 125x50cm. since cory are also partially nocturnal though (i know they are very active during day but cory are very active at night as well). would the kuhli not be that much of a difference here from the cory that you suggested?

Exactly, the difference between the nocturnality of Corydoras and Pangio in contrast to plecos is the size and the preferences in preferred zones of a habitat. Corydoras prefer open sand zones with sporadic cover by a log or a root. Pangio prefer leaf litter. In nature they are found in 30-50cm deep leaf litter beds, right above the silt. Most dwarf cichlids prefer a diverse environment with sand, leaf litter and a lot of structure from wood. Rocks are almost never part of their natural environment and at best it's some pebbles.
A pleco will likely seek out the places dwarf cichlids prefer to rest, and basically run over a cichlid easily, while the others will likely not.
Now keep in mind the differences in the habitat zones. This makes it hard to lay out a tank appropriate for dwarf cichlids and either Pangio or Corydoras. The former live quite hidden away, the others need space. Both can conflict with the structure needed to keep the cichlids from each other's throats.

if that's the case, i'm wondering if i could forgo the rams and instead choose between keeping a single species of either cacatuoides or agassizii. if i go switch to apistogramma, the red eye should be at a good temperature range that is compatible i believe.

I would stay away from A. cacatuoides completely. Simply because of the same problem of the captive population of Mikrogeophagus. They are what we call overbred. Far off the wild fish, health problems all the time and short life expectancy. Just as an overview, the following species you basically only get as domestic breeds with the usual problems: A. cacatuoides most prominently, followed by A. macmasteri, A. agassizii and A. hongsloi. Those species you barely find in their original form. Also going that way are A. borellii and A. trifasciata, due to the fact people have realized they are the least problematic. A. borellii because they are extremely peaceful compared to the rest of the genus and A. trifasciata because they are among the least fuzzy in terms of water parameters (while known for being quite on the aggressive side).

and to give you an idea of how i am planting my tank:
driftwood sits along the entire length of the aquarium. i am planting java fern and anubias over this driftwood so they have to send roots past the driftwood into the substrate, making a sort of mangrove root system. i was hoping this would create plenty of places for kuhli to thrive while leaving the rocks, and plants near the floor and bottom-mid tank hopefully to cichlids.

Important for most dwarf cichlids is the structure. This means: Open spaces are an invitation for a single dominant fish to occupy and chase away all the others. Sight blocking barriers are an important thing. It is important to block the view on their eye level: The 10-15cm right above the substrate and if possible from glass to glass, side to side and front to back. While I said up to 5 males are possible, this depends highly on the species. A. borellii would work. Small, docile, least territorial. Other species might wreak havoc instead. The bigger the species, the harder it gets in your tank size. (see below)
Admitted: My tank is a bit of an outlier at the moment, as I keep Dicrossus filamentosus and for quite a while I only kept a single male now, because it's an 80cm display tank. The species is not as aggressive and territorial in contrast to most Apistogramma but demanding in other things like water parameters.

i understand now that the mikrogeophagus like to sift sand, hence the name, and would be put off by competing with the kuhli which do the same.

Sand sifting is a general dwarf cichlid thing. Some do it more (many Apistogramma and Mikorgeophagus) some do it less (some Apistogramma, Dicrossus and Nannacara). I am very sure a all-sand-substrate would be the best choice for your tank. And it doesn't have to be a very thick layer either. 5-6cm tops.

lastly, i will have to forgo the king tiger, thank you for letting me know about them being the loud neighbors that can't keep quiet at night. i was already sort of looking into whiptail and twig catfish so this is a good thing. i have read though that solitary farlowella tend to do poorly. do you have an idea on how many farlowella i'd keep in this tank with the other mates? do i keep multiple farlowella and an extra whiptail even or is that too much bottom floor competition?

I have no direct experience with Farlowella so I can only guess from comparison with Rhineloricaria sp. and from what others told me. So yes, a group would be most appropriate. Also they are not necessarily bottom dwellers. If you offer wood and branches standing upright in the tank and up to the surface you can somewhat make it easier. Bit these bigger twig catfish need more open spaces simply due to size and maneuverability, so again you might get in a conflict with the dwarf cichlid demand for structure.

is there a way to keep 5 male cacatuoides or agassizii along with 10 kuhli and the red eye school in that setup?

Moenkhausia: For sure. never a problem.
Pangio: If you manage to offer all species the habitat they need in abundance, possible.
Number of Apistos: Especially with those two species - 3 specimens tops. I would look into other species, maybe A. ortegai or A. panduro.

And just as a heads up:
If you try this please make sure you have a second or even a third tank up and running so you can remove singular Apistos at any given time. Always remove the ones at the lower end of the pecking order. Reintroducing those is only going to work properly with some effort. You would ahve to remove them all and rescape the tank, then reintroduce them together.
And how you discern a dwarf cichlid is in trouble or not:
- stress colouration (visible vertical stripes, lack of colours. Paleness is not necessarily a sign of stress. Then the tank might be just too brightly lit.)
- heavy breathing
- mostly hanging out in the upper parts of the tank. A dwarf cichlid at the surface is a homeless dwarf cichlid as Mike Wise always says. And I concurr.

 

[datemike]

MacZ you have been immensely helpful. Thank you for making your posts really easy to read and understand and taking your time to do that.

The Apisto. Ortegai are definitely a cichlid I would be interested in after everything you've said about the other species and taking a look myself.

With that in mind and everything you've provided here I think we are getting close to a final stocking plan that would be reasonable. My question now is the quantity of each fish.

75g Long
x20 Red Eye Tetra
x12 Pencilfish (I've decided against Farlowella and have read here that Pencilfish work well with dwarf cichlids)
x10 Kuhlii
x? Apisto Ortegai (what ratio of gender/is all male possible? how many to try to introduce?)

I'll be having to make use of leaves to soften the water a bit where I live. It will also be nice to include them for the Kuhli. Would you recommend Indian Almond leaves?

I will have a 25 gallon set up when I introduce the cichlids just in case some need to be pulled. I have quite a few cichlid shops further into the city about an hour away from me that I plan to check out every other week or so during the next 3 months while I get the tank ready for getting cichlids. I'll hopefully find a helpful and friendly shop and be able to purchase directly from them.

 

[MacZ]

My pleasure!

x20 Red Eye Tetra
x12 Pencilfish (I've decided against Farlowella and have read here that Pencilfish work well with dwarf cichlids)
x10 Kuhlii
x? Apisto Ortegai (what ratio of gender/is all male possible? how many to try to introduce?)

3 male A. ortegai, provided you carefully structure it all. No females in a display tank.

I'll be having to make use of leaves to soften the water a bit where I live. It will also be nice to include them for the Kuhli. Would you recommend Indian Almond leaves?

Leaves don't soften the water. It's a misconception that is just impossible to get rid of. Rain water or reverse osmosis can be used to either dilute hard tap water or used alone. Water can only be softened by removal of things or by dilution. Simple chemical principle. It's not possible to soften water by adding things. What humic substances (contained in leaves and botanicals or very high concentrated in peat) and acids (e.g. pH-down) do is reduce the carbonate hardness (which is linked to pH) and thus lower pH.
But that is not what we as aquarists want. We want the water to have less ions in general and thus lower conductivity.
I personally use beech and oak which I collect myself in autumn, Catappa is only an alternative for me when the stash is running out. But of course they are absolutely fine. Don't add too many at once, though, keep stacking slowly. Start with 10-20 leaves and go on with a handful per week until you have a good layer.

 

[datemike]

Thank you. I'm going to be purchasing both oak and and beech leaves from tanninaquatics within the next month then.

With the leaves, after I have a good layer, how often will I have to add more? Do I just add more leaves on top of the old litter? Or do I remove the ones in the tank and replace with new dry leaves?

Also, I'll be cycling about 5-7 weeks total before the first fish go in, can I go ahead and start adding the leaves during this time while cycling and monitoring water parameters or wait until I have included some of the stock?

 

[datemike]

Lastly, if I can't find Ortegai or Panduro locally, would it be Borelli or Trifasciata that you most recommend after that? I know you mentioned that both those last species were going the way of the cacatuoides though so any other species recommendations are appreciated.

 

[anewbie]

if you live in usa wc ortegai and panduro (or nijjensi) are readily available if you don't mind paying hte shipping cost. My understanding is borelli (which i have owned) are more passive and trifaciata (which i have not owned) can be quite aggressive (this is inter species); pair forming fishes in the nijjensi family (panduro) can be quite territorial (aggressive to other species); i would never buy domestic (farmed) cacatuoides again; and have seem lovely wc cacatuoides so would try those if i try the species again - they are bigger fish and interspecies i found mine very aggressive. borelli is smaller fish - i love nijjensi but don't have a tank to dedicate to them - i had a pair ofr a while and my female is around 4 years old now and a fish that i will be sad to see pass on. She had a rough day this weekend when i moved her aquairum to the house - and she will attack any other cicihld in her aquairum but leaves the ember alone. I had her in a 40B for a while but after a couple of years she eventually killed my borelli male and had fights with other fishes after which i moved her to a 29. Just things to consider (panduro are very similar to nijjensi).
-
I've not had ortegai but @MacZ kept them in a smaller aquarium and i will let you tell you his story with them.
-
My D50 are an interesting fish in that they are very people friendly always begging for food (my pair is wc); which is unusual as my other cichild have not been beggers and they have no problem rushing to the top to feed them whatever and whenever i feed them. One thing is for sure you will never have trouble finding them. They do claim ownership of a fair amount of space and while they will leave dithers alone (they never bother with the kubotai rasbora and similar in their aquarium) they will attack any other dwarf cichild - they will be getting their own 29 after i move they are currently in a 40B. Also they do not require extremely soft water like some other species. This is also true of Borelli - nijjnesi and panduro do enjoy much softer water so there is that aspect to consider. Also borelli has a wide latitude in temperature and males while smaller can be quite stunning so they have a lot to offer other than much in the way of personality.

 

[MacZ]

I've not had ortegai but @MacZ kept them in a smaller aquarium and i will let you tell you his story with them.

In short: 60x30x40cm was a really. bad. idea. with them. I doubt a 120+cm tank would not work for a bachelor group, though. But being prepared to remove a specimen or two at any time is always advisable with dwarf cichlids.
Great fish nonetheless:

(According to the ID by Mike and Frank back then mine were A. ortegai cf. "Pebas")

 

[MacZ]

Thank you. I'm going to be purchasing both oak and and beech leaves from tanninaquatics within the next month then.

With the leaves, after I have a good layer, how often will I have to add more? Do I just add more leaves on top of the old litter? Or do I remove the ones in the tank and replace with new dry leaves?

Also, I'll be cycling about 5-7 weeks total before the first fish go in, can I go ahead and start adding the leaves during this time while cycling and monitoring water parameters or wait until I have included some of the stock?

Oh, I overlooked that one and the following.

Allright, oak and beech are definitely cheaper than catappa. I chose them because they grow naturally here in Central Europe it's just an afternoon per year with a nice long walk collecting them in a nearby forest.

I'm at the point that I add leaves irregularly. Basicaly whenever I see the cichlids are not turning them over as much anymore I add a handful. As long as you don't have any fish you can add quite a few, but be aware: The moment you add something dead and organic into the water microorganisms start colonizing it and that drops oxygen levels. Hence I advise to add only small amounts at once after the initial layer.
I leave them in until they turn to mulm and leave that stuff in indefinitely as well. A good layer of good mulm (plant debris, only small amounts of lost food and feces, lots of microfauna like worms) makes for a healthy aquarium. Bad mulm (mostly food leftovers and feces and mostly bacteria and fungi) is the opposite. Leaf litter and a healthy low stocking density (which you are now going for), combined with fish that live in that biome and keep the leaf litter aerated by moving it, and you don't have much bottom maintenance last time I siphoned something from the bottom of my tank was in the last tank, when I had to remove a fouling lotus plant.

About cycling... If you go for true softwater cycling isn't an issue. You add wood, botanicals and leaves and thus add the bioload base (So yes, start from day one). The tank then simply goes on and developes. Have a look at the thread @anewbie just posted and use the search, you will then find some interesting posts. Look out especially for posts by darrell ( @dw1305 ), he's our resident specialist in that regard.

Lastly, if I can't find Ortegai or Panduro locally, would it be Borelli or Trifasciata that you most recommend after that? I know you mentioned that both those last species were going the way of the cacatuoides though so any other species recommendations are appreciated.

In Europe the stock of A. borellii and A. trifasciata is still quite healthy as far as I can tell, mostly due to them neither being mass produced nor subject to linebreeding for colour forms. In North America this seems to be a different story according to some of our specialists here on the forum.
Generalla A. borellii are the only species anyone would advise to get for a group even in tanks as small as 80cm. They are small and docile (peaceful... well... not so much when breeding, but they are quite tolerant interspecies and intraspecies.
A. trifasciata are notorious for being very aggressive intraspecies, but I have also heard of people keeping bchelor groups. As I haven't kept that species, I can't tell you much more.

I should add: I'm focused on Dicrossus when it comes to dwarf cichlids, Apistogramma and others I see and observe only when I go to stores and when I'm looking after a friend's fishroom. I'm at said friend's place at least twice a week, and keep track of dwarf cichlids at a store with an employee who's also interested in the developments around the popular species (mostly dwarf cichlids and gourami) and their genetics.

 

[Frank Hättich]

View attachment 13515
(According to the ID by Mike and Frank back then mine were A. ortegai cf. "Pebas")

I don't know what I might have said back then, but this fish looks like A. ortegai (without "cf.") to me.

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree with you Frank. Maybe we were looking at females, too. Sadly, both species come in mixed - and more frequently hybridized with each other.

 

[Ben Rhau]

Agree with much of what has been said. A note that if you're set on *either* M. ramirezi or A. cacatouides, it is possible to get wild specimens of them. But you typically need to go through independent sellers to get those. I've definitely seen them listed somewhat frequently. But most of the market is the seriously inbred kind, and I would only buy from someone I trust. There are also many other species of apistos and other dwarf cichlids (mentioned in the thread) that are just as easy to keep and breed, and not as ubiquitous.

I've kept amano shrimp with apistos before. Agree that soft water isn't perfect for them, but they're extremely hardy and can survive a lot, unless predated upon. Both of the species I kept ignored them, but YMMV.

Thank you. I'm going to be purchasing both oak and and beech leaves from tanninaquatics within the next month then.

I really like what Scott Fellman is doing, and would love to support his business. That said, I think it's excessive to pay that much for oak and beech leaves. It's almost autumn, so you may soon be able to collect them yourself for free (which Scott encourages). You can also probably find them cheaper on etsy. I bought a full pound of live oak leaves there for $15.

 

[MacZ]

I don't know what I might have said back then, but this fish looks like A. ortegai (without "cf.") to me.

I agree with you Frank. Maybe we were looking at females, too. Sadly, both species come in mixed - and more frequently hybridized with each other.

Thanks! Was almost 2 years ago. I might have remembered the "cf."-part incorrectly myself.

I really like what Scott Fellman is doing, and would love to support his business. That said, I think it's excessive to pay that much for oak and beech leaves. It's almost autumn, so you may soon be able to collect them yourself for free (which Scott encourages). You can also probably find them cheaper on etsy. I bought a full pound of live oak leaves there for $15.

I think the same way. Buying is maybe an option if you start the tank in the wrong season or the seller delivers quickly on short notice. Otherwise... I'm also with you and Scott, collect yourself, if you can.

 

[datemike]

I've kept amano shrimp with apistos before. Agree that soft water isn't perfect for them, but they're extremely hardy and can survive a lot, unless predated upon. Both of the species I kept ignored them, but YMMV.

I'll see what I can do. I'm not dead set on shrimp and would rather have them in a separate tank if it means they won't jive so I'll see what I can do and if need be rehome them to a 50g I have.

And to everyone who responded thank you very much. I have been to numerous discord communities, subreddits, etc and none of them have been nearly as helpful or as informative as this place has in just a short amount of time.

 

[datemike]

So I've done a bit more research today and I'm thinking I should drop the kuhli as suggested due to their bottom dwelling habits.

IF i replace the kuhli could i go with more than 3 male cichlid of one of the less aggressive/overbred varieties suggested in this thread?

 

[anewbie]

The kuhli wont' change the number of Cichlid you keep; it will just prevent the stress of the Cichlid chasing the kuhli away (though mine mostly just ignore them).

 

[datemike]

got it, thank you.

 

[MacZ]

IF i replace the kuhli could i go with more than 3 male cichlid of one of the less aggressive/overbred varieties suggested in this thread?

The only exception would be A. borellii. They are that small and least aggressive. All the others... stick to three, it would boil down to that number anyway.