I.adoketa with L.fulvipinnis or with Heckel discus in one tank?

[zmirek]

Hi,

No doubt I. adoketa is an very interesting and attractive species. Thanks to blueblue and other guys we all I convienced about that.

Unfortunettaly it is not so easy to find (especially in Europe) at reasonable price. There are some hopes (i.e. see one of latest post of Mark (Microman) to have them more widely "distributed" so maybe there is a time to start thinking about tank set-up for them.

As far as I know I. adoketa is very agressive fish towards other fish of their own species and fish of other species. That means they can not be put together with "average" apisto.
But what about new desribed L. fulvipinnis. "Old friend" as Mike said seems to be big enough and (I hope) tough enough to be a good tank mate for "dragon fish" (acc. to BB ;-)) I also have heard such opinion a few years ago so I am wondering if it the right one.

Second option is setting-up tank with I. adoketa and (wild of F1) Heckel discus (S. discus acc. to one of latest revision of genus). They both come from the same area - Rio Negro basin. They both required some (or at least similar) water conditions so maybe keeping them together with (big enough) tank is an idea worth to be considered?

I do prefer to keep apistos in bigger tanks (and bigger groups as well) just to have better opportunity to watch on their social behaviour. That is why I am wondering if I. adoketa could be keept that way too.

I'am waiting on your comments

 

[blueblue]

Hi zmirek:
1. Adult I. adoketa will fight until a pair is formed and the pair will kill all the other adoketa in the same tank unless the population is huge which makes fierce attack on a specific specimen impossible.
2. I myself is also interested in mixing discus with adoketa... i will only do so under two conditions:
a. The discus in the tank are much bigger than the adoketa.
b. I am not interested in breeding any one of them.
To me, Heckel is usually relatively weak (P.S: This is biased as there are very
strong specimens of Heckel, such as the blue-faced ones, but their price is very very high). I would have to think twice before trying...

Hi,

No doubt I. adoketa is an very interesting and attractive species. Thanks to blueblue and other guys we all I convienced about that.

Unfortunettaly it is not so easy to find (especially in Europe) at reasonable price. There are some hopes (i.e. see one of latest post of Mark (Microman) to have them more widely "distributed" so maybe there is a time to start thinking about tank set-up for them.

As far as I know I. adoketa is very agressive fish towards other fish of their own species and fish of other species. That means they can not be put together with "average" apisto.
But what about new desribed L. fulvipinnis. "Old friend" as Mike said seems to be big enough and (I hope) tough enough to be a good tank mate for "dragon fish" (acc. to BB ;-)) I also have heard such opinion a few years ago so I am wondering if it the right one.

Second option is setting-up tank with I. adoketa and (wild of F1) Heckel discus (S. discus acc. to one of latest revision of genus). They both come from the same area - Rio Negro basin. They both required some (or at least similar) water conditions so maybe keeping them together with (big enough) tank is an idea worth to be considered?

I do prefer to keep apistos in bigger tanks (and bigger groups as well) just to have better opportunity to watch on their social behaviour. That is why I am wondering if I. adoketa could be keept that way too.

I'am waiting on your comments

 

[Mike Wise]

Hi,

As far as I know I. adoketa is very agressive fish towards other fish of their own species and fish of other species. That means they can not be put together with "average" apisto.
But what about new desribed L. fulvipinnis. "Old friend" as Mike said seems to be big enough and (I hope) tough enough to be a good tank mate for "dragon fish" (acc. to BB ;-)) I also have heard such opinion a few years ago so I am wondering if it the right one.

I'am waiting on your comments

I. adoketa & L. fulvipinnis should do well together - if the tank is large enough (55 gallon or 1m). They both come from the same area and like the same water conditions.

 

[zmirek]

1. Adult I. adoketa will fight until a pair is formed and the pair will kill all the other adoketa in the same tank unless the population is huge which makes fierce attack on a specific specimen impossible.

So following you if I'd like to have group of adoketas (let's consider I have enough money and luck for it) I should buy group of juveniles and when they grow-up leave at least 3 pairs in spacious tank right? Trick with keeping more than two males of one species in big enough tank (as usually work for most of apistos) will also work for adoketas?

2. I myself is also interested in mixing discus with adoketa... i will only do so under two conditions:
a. The discus in the tank are much bigger than the adoketa.

That should be easy to fulfill since minimum reasonable size of discus that should be purchased is bigger than adoketas TL.

To me, Heckel is usually relatively weak (P.S: This is biased as there are very
strong specimens of Heckel, such as the blue-faced ones, but their price is very very high). I would have to think twice before trying...

That is very interesting (especially for such freshman in discus as me) regarding weakness of Heckels. Since I am not planning to set-up discus tank within short time that is another aspect I should consider it before I decide which of wild form of discus I am going to keep. So far Heckels still remain on 1st place on my discus wish list.

BTW have you seen "Bleher's Discus vol. 1"? To my knowedge it is one of few publication in English that is treating about wild discus and their habitat Did you find it valuable for money they are asking for it.

 

[zmirek]

I. adoketa & L. fulvipinnis should do well together - if the tank is large enough (55 gallon or 1m). They both come from the same area and like the same water conditions.

Thanks Mike. What about agression of L. fulvipinnis? This is relatively large species so can it be kept with other dwarf cichlids from the same area?

 

[Mike Wise]

Thanks Mike. What about agression of L. fulvipinnis? This is relatively large species so can it be kept with other dwarf cichlids from the same area?

L. fulvipinnis is not as aggressive as I. adoketa, but being larger they will hold off any aggression from I adoketa. They will need a large aquarium if they both breed for you. Since one is an open breeder (L. fulvipinnis) and the other is a secretive breeder (I. adoketa), they actually seek out different spawning territories.

 

[blueblue]

1. Well, regarding the size of discus, i would recommend a much bigger one compared to the adoketa. Say, when the adoketa is 3cm long, i would recommend the size of discus to be 6cm - 9cm long... again, adoketa is really aggressive... in the future, maybe i will try to conduct an experiment of mixing some of my adoketa F1 with discus, it is interesting...

2. For me, I have kept discus for over ten years before being committed to apistos. Discus used to be a very very popular fish in Asia and there are a huge amount of books from the Chinese world and Japan. Many renowned discus, such as the Blue Diamond (full blue), are actually created by breeders in Hong Kong... however, wildcaught discus is NOT popular in Hong Kong and we could usually find fair quality fish here only. The best looking ones all go to Japan and Taiwan, and we need to place special orders in order to get these specimens...
Anyhow, for wildcaught discus, i have a translated version of the book called "Faszination Diskuswildfange" by Bernd Degen... however, the specimens found in the book are again, fair quality only... if you want to take a look at some more interesting and recently caught specimens, please refer to the following
http://www.u2u.idv.tw/stone/htm/DISCUS/discus.htm
(the ones in the bottom look to be more interesting to me)...

So following you if I'd like to have group of adoketas (let's consider I have enough money and luck for it) I should buy group of juveniles and when they grow-up leave at least 3 pairs in spacious tank right? Trick with keeping more than two males of one species in big enough tank (as usually work for most of apistos) will also work for adoketas?
That should be easy to fulfill since minimum reasonable size of discus that should be purchased is bigger than adoketas TL.
That is very interesting (especially for such freshman in discus as me) regarding weakness of Heckels. Since I am not planning to set-up discus tank within short time that is another aspect I should consider it before I decide which of wild form of discus I am going to keep. So far Heckels still remain on 1st place on my discus wish list.

BTW have you seen "Bleher's Discus vol. 1"? To my knowedge it is one of few publication in English that is treating about wild discus and their habitat Did you find it valuable for money they are asking for it.

 

[peterK]

Here some good photos and short description of L. fulvipinnis, by Wolfgang Staeck:
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?s=1865

 

[Apistomaster]

Where did the idea that Heckel Discus are weak come from? They are a special interest of mine and i do find them less aggressive than wild Blue/Browns but no SA Dwarf Cichlid will brow beat them. I've kept many species of dwarf Cichlids with mine. Here are some of ten in my Heckel tank. Blue faced Heckels are simply extra colorful dominant fish in their group but are not a distinctly different fish. There are a few Apistogramma iniridae in there but not shown.