Hongsloi Flashing?

[MickeM]

Hello Duffmanj !

The things I can see in your tank gives me some hints of a bacterial problem.. If so../What you can do..

-The water+surface of the glass looks a little bit "cloudy"(layers of bacteria/detritus ??) Otocinlus love it, they feed on it..but can not eat it all even with help from from the snails. And also, if otocinclus are fed with proper food from "above" they may be to full to eat the detrituslayer in the aquarium..
-Pencilfishes looks like "overfed" to me. Cut amount of food with at least 50%.. will give you less restproducts in the water/filtermedia. (Fishes normaly survive for at least 2weeks without food). Defrost the froozen food in a small cup of water before feeding , then pour it in .. Maybe the honsloi´s then get a chance eating some before the other has been taking it all.. Apistos can be shy compared to other fishes at the feeding moment..
- Check filter sponge/media.. Probably stuffed with stuff Clean it, but do not change a lot of water..(not at this critical moment!!).. at most 10-20% (maybe add a very small amount of salt).
-Plants (Myriophyllum/Cabomba) looks like not growing well close to your gravel. If not growing OK, cut them off and replant the topsections in the sand. Always remove dead parts, othervise they do decay/rot and gives "bad" bacteria new dissolved nutrients to thrive on(??). Healthy plants often helps you keep healthy fishes..
-Size of gravel... very small dimension on the gravel will stop chances of a well balanced aquarium (when feeding a lot). "Good" bacteria needs somewhere to sit and multiply/reproduce.. and"eating restproducts" falling down, into the sand!! (They do that when sitting on every OK sized gravel with enough oxygen availible). When doing water change, try to hoover up/clean some of the sand.(approx. 1/5 of the area every time you change water, especially in tanks with no healthy plants). You can have a tank without gravel but then you will have to control your feeding patterns..
-Check the tank in concern of dead snails.

This will probably give you a good functioning system and less problem with the fishes.. If the fishes are OK from the start!!

 

[Duffmanj]

Hi guys,
Thank you for the responses, much appreciated.

I've been changing around 10% of the water every other day for the last week or so, on top of my weekly 25-20% change. Point taken on the symptoms seeming like those of a tank with old water, but I am quite strict on my tank maintenance.

There is a small amount of algae growing on the glass, I tend to give this a good scrub every couple of weeks - other than this I think that the quality of the pictures is not helping! For the most part the water stays quite clear, although it is quite dark due to the wood (and unless I've just done a clean-up!).

I've been wondering whether to stop feeding for a couple of days and see if this helps, but have been wanting to keep their strength up at the same time - I might give them a couple of days without food and see if this helps. I do defrost the blocks in tank water and feed with a pipette, which allows me to target the hongsloi and drizzle them in - both male and female eat well!

I clean the filter each week during the water change and make sure there's a good flow-through of water, not to worry about that!

Some of the plants have been quite recently planted and I'm unfortunately still clearing up from the die-off. I vacuum the sand to clear up any destritus (especially large accumulations) from this each time I do a change. This is the first time I've used this substrate (JBL Sansibar) and I like it so far except for the fact that it seems to build up dirt more quickly.

Based on advice from various sources I have treated for subclinical parasitism - we will see how it goes.

 

[MickeM]

Hi !

Good to hear that you have the strength to go on.
Several times I have purchased weak Apistos, resulting in giving up or loosing hope for a while..
But your hongsloi´s don´t look like even close to the end... rather having a chill
Maybe the plants just triggered the effect??
Be sure to control the sand from containing "calcinic" gravels(not very good for the plants).

By the way.. I sometimes meet Doctor ?? Torbjörn Hongsloi when going to Aqurium auctions(exhibitions).
I think he still works in Uppsala(Sweden), with "ichtyological desease research".
It would be ironic to contact him to hear his diagnose of the hongsloi´s.....!!
He can probably tell us in less than a minute..

Good luck!!
/MickeM

 

[Duffmanj]

I waited for these guys for several months so I'm determined!

I was wondering about whether something came in on the plants - I did wash them thoroughly as usual but there's always the chance!

The substrate I'm using was in fact recommended for planted aquariums, previously I've used a larger grain but fancied a change - http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/5017/jbl-sansibar-river

That's really interesting...perhaps I will try and get in contact with him! If I do, and receive a response, I will be sure to let you know.

Thank you - hopefully I won't need it!

 

[MickeM]

I have to correct my spelling..
His name is Thorbjörn Hongslo..

Too many hours with the Apisto books/websites.....!!!

 

[gerald]

Unfortunately I dont think anybody can diagnose that fish's problem from the photos. Other than closed-up fins there is nothing visible for symptoms. It might be an internal infection (bacteria, protozoa, worms), gill parasites, organ damage from improper diet or water chemistry... many different possibilities. As long as he's still eating, there's hope for recovery. BTW, slime on the glass (bacteria, fungi, algae, etc) and dead plant leaves are not harmful to your fish, and water that looks "clean" to humans may or may not be a healthy environment for Apistos.

 

[MickeM]

That is so true..
I just had to give my opinion when I saw 2 or 3 specific signals that might cause/increase the problem..
And to diagnose illness symptoms/problems and not have the fishtank(+history) in front of you is never a perfect situation.

/Micke

 

[bludfire]

Any update Duffmanj?

 

[Duffmanj]

So the treatment didn't seem to have any obvious effect. He did improve for a few days and we saw a lot more of him but now he's back to hiding away and sitting listless or floating with clamped fins. The other fish in the tank seem ok and there are still no outward signs of disease. Ive read recently about frozen foods causing problems so I have stopped feeding these for the time being. I've also upgraded to api stress coat rather than lfs branded conditioner and am currently running carbon in the filter to strip out any meds that might still be present.

 

[Duffmanj]

Running out of ideas now. He sits around on the bottom of the tank/propped up on the wood. Seems to be eating as normal, no aggression from the female or tankmates (Pencilfish). Flashing has possibly decreased slightly but mood as not.

Tank is more recently heavily planted now, Cabomba was not doing well and has been removed.

Water measurements are:

NH3 - 0.25 ppm
PH - 7.6
N02 - 0ppm
N03 - 10ppm
KH - 80
GH - 180

Tap water is:

NH3 - 0.25
Nitrate - 10ppm
PH - 7.6

Planning to use rainwater to lower hardness and PH over the coming weeks by mixing in with tapwater, measures out at:

GH - 30
KH - 0
PH - 6.5
N02 - 0
N03 - <20

 

[gerald]

It's possible the high pH and hardness in your water could be interfering with his osmoregulation, but if so I'd expect to see his breathing more rapid than normal. Anyway, lowering the pH and hardness is a good idea and might help. I'm surprised your rainwater has 30 mg/L hardness. Maybe there's some Ca or Mg in your roof materials?

 

[Duffmanj]

That might be a possibility, thanks. I'm going to be swapping out water over the next week or so to slowly drop it.

The roof is tiled, its possible that something is being picked up on the way! Have started running it through a polyfilter and carbon before I add it to the tank.

 

[Duffmanj]

Things seem to be taking a turn for the better! I've been slowly adding rainwater throughout the week to try and lower the hardness of the water and have been feeding little-to-no frozen food (one block of Cyclops over about 3 days, supplemented with dried food) and he seems to be coming around. Apologies for the poor picture (it's cleaning day today, tank needs a bit of a scrub)!

I have seen him flash a few times today but nowhere near as much as before, his colour has massively improved and he's been roaming around the tank all day pecking at plants etc.

Fingers crossed it carries on this way! I'm not sure which helped more but I'll continue to run this tank slightly softer and avoid frozen bloodworms completely.

**edit** - I'll also mention that I think he might look a little smaller than before, so I'm wondering if he was bloated from the food...

 

[MickeM]

Hi Duffmanj !

I´m happy to see your hongsloi-male is getting better.. hopefully he will get those famous long filaments on his ventrals and other fins. His colours really seem to have come back..

If the pH and kH is OK, you probably can expect the couple mating soon.. if the female is full of eggs..

My Apistos often do that after a minor waterchange + cleaning approx 0,5-1 liter of the sand.(taken from a plant free area)

It was probably a food related case, as you mention.