Gold viejita

[discus fever]

Hi, I bought these at a local fish show as "gold viejita" . After reading many posts how viejita are almost unheard of I thought I would try to get a more correct id. I got them at 3/4" and have had them about 5 months. The largest one has just a tinge of red along the top of the dorsal fin.the picture I was shown when I purchased them also showed some red on the gill cover, but mine have not displyed.any there yet. Any help willbe appreciated.

 

[discus fever]

Somehow I posted this in the wrong section. mods-will you please move it where it belongs.

 

[Mike Wise]

Based on body shape (they show no dark markings), my guess is that this is a domestic xanthistic strain of A. macmasteri.

 

[discus fever]

Thanks for answering. I was hoping I had a rare find but I guess not. This is kind of what I expected and it's good to know what I actually have.thank you

 

[tjudy]

That color form is not all that common...

 

[discus fever]

That color form is not all that common...

Can you tell me more about them? I believe you have been a speaker at the minneapolis fish show. Maybe these came from you a couple of years.ago? I have not been able to find much info about them (although I was looking for viejita not macmasteri). Unless told otherwise I will assume these are a line bred color morph and not some sort of frankenstien fish that I shouldn't let out of my fishroom.i really don't know apistos that well and any info is welcomed.thank you

 

[tjudy]

They did not come from me... I have never had those. Until these pics were posted I was not even aware the color form existed. If there are like the yellow cacatuoides form, they will have a lot of physical variability in the offspring... many culls.

 

[discus fever]

I don't want to cull, but I hope to someday have the option since these have not been seen alot, I thought I would try to get some better shots. These guys just don't sit still long enough. I know this tank looks filthy but honestly I do a wc every week.

Hopefully these a little clearer.

 

[Melanochromis]

Unless told otherwise I will assume these are a line bred color morph and not some sort of frankenstien fish that I shouldn't let out of my fishroom.i really don't know apistos that well and any info is welcomed.thank you

This gold strain of macmasteri is very common here in my country. Most of them are healthy and very beautiful, especially those that come from good Apistogramma breeders. I wish you could have seen a grown male with gorgeous red face and body. However, the chance for deformity does seem to be slightly above average, but probably not as high as many strains of cacatuoides or agassizii.

 

[discus fever]

Melanochromis, thanks for the info. I just noticed a post of these fish in the photo section. They are a nice looking fish when fully colored. I am also wondering about the eyes. The eyes on my fish seem to bulge up above the forehead. Is this something they grow into or would mine be considered stunted ? I know for discus, large eyes are undesirable and are a sign of being stunted.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I know this tank looks filthy

I think that a lot of us have tanks which are a lot more messy than yours. Personally I'd add a sand substrate layer, it doesn't have to be very thick, it is just that Apistogramma are Geophagine cichlids and "earth-eating" is part of their natural behaviour.

cheers Darrel

 

[discus fever]

Thanks for making me feel better about my messy tank Darrel I bought a bag of sand last week, I just havenT had time to put it in yet.

 

[chris1932]

Any chance they were raised by Don Koch?

 

[discus fever]

I bought them from a guy named mike, I don't want to post his last name on a public forum. He lives in the minneapolis area. I'm not sure where his original stock came from.

 

[chris1932]

The Male should look like this as an adult, I who they came from because I sold a few pairs to a man in your area.

 

[Mike Wise]

Definitely a domestic form of A. macmasteri.

 

[discus fever]

Chris1932, that fish in the picture looks very similar to the picture he had on the sale table. I sure wish they would hurry up and get some color!
Mr. wise, Thanks for the positive id.

 

[ste12000]

Nice picture Chris, however these 'man made' strains are generally pretty weak, the fish in your picture has a defective ventral fin which is typical for these line bred strains.

We have this gold morph here in the UK and im just starting out on working at strengthening the line i have by crossing in wild blood. Earlier this year, i imported some nice macmasteri from Columbia, ive kept the pure wild strain going in the fishroom and found myself with a single female 'gold' macmasteri which came from a friends brood, ive used a very nice F1 male with this female and today they have brought out a brood of almost 100 fry. They look a little lighter than normal wilds but time will tell if the gold is dominant or recessive, either way it should only take a maximum of 6 months to get a gold stain with wild blood. Hopefully this will improve matters with this strain here in the UK. Disappointingly the gold outsells the wild 3 to 1...

Wild male, father of the F1 male.

Gold female with her brood freeswimming earlier today.

 

[wethumbs]

Defective ventral fins may or may not be genetic related. It can be due to overfeeding of live food such as microworm. I have seen WC and F1 generation with similar or worst ventral defects that their progenies were not affected.

 

[ste12000]

I do agree wethumbs but i think that you need to clarify your statement, it is certainly not the actual food that you feed that produces such deformaties!! ive fed tons of microworm and only feed live foods, ive never had a problem with defective ventrals. Are you sure the overfeeding of live food may not be leading to poor water quality and it is that, that is causing the fin damage?

I have two breeder friends here in the UK, i get fish from them and they also have defective ventrals, most are F1, i put it down to bacterial issues in the tanks they are raised in. Certainly amongst some strains this is not genetic, ive just bred Nannacara aureocephalous which is aprox 2-3 generations from wild, the male i used had no ventrals at all, i took a chance and spawned them, 100% of the resulting fry are perfectly formed and have baby ventral fins already after a few weeks old.

Strengthening domestic lines should not be frowned upon, many more breeders should aim to be producing domestic fish that are strong, healthy and non deformed... Genetic or not the breeders producing these fish should be better with their culling, fish such as the beauty that Chris photographed should not be offered for sale, in my fishroom these fish with defective fins ect are culled long before they are adult.