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blackwater tank cycling?
- Thread starter anewbie
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I'm not sure around 18-20; but only 8 or 9 are dedicated to apistogramm species. I've reached my limit in space and time. I was able to find more frys for the a. sp ipiranga - tehy were all hugging the sponge filter but immediately went after the bbs when added (my guess is around 12-15). This species is kind of weird they seem to have a lot of attribute of pair forming in that the male appears to only bond with a single female but of course once she broods she wants nothing to do with him but he wont' allow other females near him. They are also large fish - i think @miguelgr7 has his in a 29 or 20 but given their sudden turn to violence towards other fishes i'm happy they are in a larger aquarium. The one head-ache is that hte tank is so dark it obscures their beauty. Given they are fairly people friendly i might try to lighten things a little. I do have a 2nd or maybe a 3rd female (if it didn't die) in the aquarium but it hides in a huge clump of anubia and will only stick her nose out - once or twice it will come out and try to temp the male but he wants nothing to do with her.
I knew she had brooded because the two separated and he refused to go near her; there were other typical behavior in that she kept darting in and out and such but the male behavior was more odd - i never observed violence or other signaling as i do with other species he just wouldn't go near her and actually retreated quite far to an area he normally doesn't occupy (the tank is 16x48); this is definitely a species i doubt you could keep two pairs in less than 72 x 24; the weird thing is when i first got them the two males hung out together and i never saw any violence between them but then one day one was dead (i suppose it could have died on its own but i suspect otherwise); normally when there is such violence they separate and in this aquarium there was room for such. Anyway i would love to know more about their wild habitat and behavior in the wild.
The winkelfleck and a. sp blutkehl are very different esp with the a. sp blutkehl there seem no violence towards the fry even older frys seem to ignore them and some near maturity i still see no violence. I have around 20 frys in the 65 with the parents - i tried to remove a bunch when i upgraded the tank but a lot hid in the substrate - gonna be a real problem at some point. The a. wolli are very different i find violence among older and younger fry and adults and fry - the fry are definitely made to feel unwelcomed at a young age. Maybe it is just the specific ones i have.
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Other than price i'm definitely pleased with the morse code tetra; it is a toss up between them and the n. marilynae in terms of preference though the lower price of the n. marilynae give them an edge. I definitely prefer these smaller schoolers to the larger nannostomus (which i find even in the 65 to be too large). I suppose in a 200 or 400 they would do fine. Also i feel the smaller scholers are less bio-load though i should probably try to take some careful measurements. That is i think the larger fishes which might be 2x in size is 4x bioload or something like that. Also both the mentioned n and tetra seem to form large clumps as oppose to more individual behavior i see with the larger nannostomus. I would call it schooling but they don't normally show a lot of motion unless disturbed.
I knew she had brooded because the two separated and he refused to go near her; there were other typical behavior in that she kept darting in and out and such but the male behavior was more odd - i never observed violence or other signaling as i do with other species he just wouldn't go near her and actually retreated quite far to an area he normally doesn't occupy (the tank is 16x48); this is definitely a species i doubt you could keep two pairs in less than 72 x 24; the weird thing is when i first got them the two males hung out together and i never saw any violence between them but then one day one was dead (i suppose it could have died on its own but i suspect otherwise); normally when there is such violence they separate and in this aquarium there was room for such. Anyway i would love to know more about their wild habitat and behavior in the wild.
The winkelfleck and a. sp blutkehl are very different esp with the a. sp blutkehl there seem no violence towards the fry even older frys seem to ignore them and some near maturity i still see no violence. I have around 20 frys in the 65 with the parents - i tried to remove a bunch when i upgraded the tank but a lot hid in the substrate - gonna be a real problem at some point. The a. wolli are very different i find violence among older and younger fry and adults and fry - the fry are definitely made to feel unwelcomed at a young age. Maybe it is just the specific ones i have.
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Other than price i'm definitely pleased with the morse code tetra; it is a toss up between them and the n. marilynae in terms of preference though the lower price of the n. marilynae give them an edge. I definitely prefer these smaller schoolers to the larger nannostomus (which i find even in the 65 to be too large). I suppose in a 200 or 400 they would do fine. Also i feel the smaller scholers are less bio-load though i should probably try to take some careful measurements. That is i think the larger fishes which might be 2x in size is 4x bioload or something like that. Also both the mentioned n and tetra seem to form large clumps as oppose to more individual behavior i see with the larger nannostomus. I would call it schooling but they don't normally show a lot of motion unless disturbed.
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Just an updated picture - always amaze me how these folks use leaves. Unfortunately when i got closer to take a better picture he was spooked:
One of the young norbert male no colouring yet:
different aquarium - one of the dm:
I think i have 5 male and 1 female dm the males are all around 3 inches but so far are not showing any aggression (they are in a 180); kind of overfed since they eat the discus left over food and the discus are not very neat eaters (i still hand feed them black worm cubes).
One of the young norbert male no colouring yet:
different aquarium - one of the dm:
I think i have 5 male and 1 female dm the males are all around 3 inches but so far are not showing any aggression (they are in a 180); kind of overfed since they eat the discus left over food and the discus are not very neat eaters (i still hand feed them black worm cubes).
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Leaf litter is their natural environment in the wild. When we collected apistos we spent a lot of time removing leaf litter in order to see what fish we actually collected
Obviously tank size matters. Behavior changes in smaller tanks.
Was trying to get a good picture of the dominant male norbertii during water change but he was too busy patrolling (he's not shy at all but he moves a lot); so i took these two instead:
This is a e. parviflorus tropicall; the only real thing to note about it is that conversion from emersed to submersed went really fast and growth is quite good (i've had it for approx 2 months and it is zipping along) and this is the dominant female (i have 3 m and 3 f in 100):
I actually think the two have been courting as he won't chase her away unlike the other females. To avoid conflict i feed on both sides of the aquarium to reduce temptation to push fishes into each other territories (the water portion is 48in x 30in); this species is quite typical with lots of chasing. Though the range seems to be approx 20ish inches before the chaser gives up. I would not be shocked if at some point there is a death but on the other hand 6 weeks and things seem fairly stable.
to my eye the male has very little colour so far though the tannins mask a bit.
This is a e. parviflorus tropicall; the only real thing to note about it is that conversion from emersed to submersed went really fast and growth is quite good (i've had it for approx 2 months and it is zipping along) and this is the dominant female (i have 3 m and 3 f in 100):
I actually think the two have been courting as he won't chase her away unlike the other females. To avoid conflict i feed on both sides of the aquarium to reduce temptation to push fishes into each other territories (the water portion is 48in x 30in); this species is quite typical with lots of chasing. Though the range seems to be approx 20ish inches before the chaser gives up. I would not be shocked if at some point there is a death but on the other hand 6 weeks and things seem fairly stable.
to my eye the male has very little colour so far though the tannins mask a bit.
I've been meaning to post this picture for a while - it is nothing species just your typical Echinodorus parviflorus ‘Tropica’ which arrived in emersed form. What grabs me is how well plants grow in blackwater environment under relatively low light (i have to double check this aquarium but i think the bottom is in the range of 10); all the leaves are new submersed leaves - it is a bit longer leg than ones i've grown under brighter light which is fine. In truth most of the plants in this aquarium have done well but this is the only new one i've added in a year (other than some buces i had left over).
guess i already had this one. btw the norbertii seem to be working out pretty well - bit of display here and there and a few chases but nothing too drastic. One female remains bright yellow for weeks on end but i haven't seen any actual breeding and one male has claimed a feeding location. The other 4 tend to stay in the alternative feeding location (when feeding in larger aquariums i try to respect those who have territories).
guess i already had this one. btw the norbertii seem to be working out pretty well - bit of display here and there and a few chases but nothing too drastic. One female remains bright yellow for weeks on end but i haven't seen any actual breeding and one male has claimed a feeding location. The other 4 tend to stay in the alternative feeding location (when feeding in larger aquariums i try to respect those who have territories).
I thought i would post this here since i see it a *lot* but never see it discussed. A good chunk of my so call algae eaters (i don't think they eat algae) like to hang out on leaves - sometime on the underside and sometime on the top - this little guy is on the top of this floating leaf:
There was a conversation somewhere about java fern so when i did water change today i took a look at this aquarium and took these pictures:
I measured this leave and it was 9 inches long and 2 inches wide (approx)
and another plant:
Now these plants are growing slowly and they are not producing a huge number of plantets as they would with co2 but the growth is steady (they have been in this aquarium for 2 years).
As for fish population update: this used to be just the a. bitaeniata but they have mostly aged out with 2 males left both showing age with curved back - there might be a female but i havent' seen it in 4 or so months. Earlier this summer i added 3 pairs of wc a. norbert and in which one dominant male and female as emersed - this is a species that is definitely more aggressive but there has been no deaths and the males have put on an inch in the 2 or 3 months i've had them (maybe i feed too much?); the female no growth. This is not really a breeding tank as too much of it is inviisble though if they were to produced a managed spawn i would inject some bbs.
I measured this leave and it was 9 inches long and 2 inches wide (approx)
and another plant:
Now these plants are growing slowly and they are not producing a huge number of plantets as they would with co2 but the growth is steady (they have been in this aquarium for 2 years).
As for fish population update: this used to be just the a. bitaeniata but they have mostly aged out with 2 males left both showing age with curved back - there might be a female but i havent' seen it in 4 or so months. Earlier this summer i added 3 pairs of wc a. norbert and in which one dominant male and female as emersed - this is a species that is definitely more aggressive but there has been no deaths and the males have put on an inch in the 2 or 3 months i've had them (maybe i feed too much?); the female no growth. This is not really a breeding tank as too much of it is inviisble though if they were to produced a managed spawn i would inject some bbs.
Some pictures from my a. winkelfleck aquarium (all photo same aquarium); it is a large dense aquarium so kind of hard to get everything into a single picture - approx 48x24x18 (inch); never clear if i prefer the garden side or fish side of managing an aquarium....
One of the adult male norbert - kind of drained of all colours (the dominant male is a bit darker but he wasn't out at the time):
As for the eye candy aspect a bit disappointed with the norbert; the ones on tom's page are a lot nicer looking.
One of the older male bitaenita; this one has never been very colourful the other one was much more colourful but when i went to get the phone he scooted off so i missed the photo op which was kind of a shame. I'd like to get another nice photo of him before he ages out - both of these males are showing signs of advanced age:
As for the eye candy aspect a bit disappointed with the norbert; the ones on tom's page are a lot nicer looking.
One of the older male bitaenita; this one has never been very colourful the other one was much more colourful but when i went to get the phone he scooted off so i missed the photo op which was kind of a shame. I'd like to get another nice photo of him before he ages out - both of these males are showing signs of advanced age:
Just a couple of pictures:
One of the two dominant female a. norbert - she is always bright yellow but no indication of breeding:
One of the two year old otto; think it is a male:
Very large female otto but this one was in the very back so you can't really tell the difference:
Subdominant male a. norbert:
The dominant male a. norbert made himself known but didn't stick around for a photo. As seems to be the case when i poke around - he will come out find 2 or 3 fishes to chase then go back to whatever he was doing before i poked:
One of the two dominant female a. norbert - she is always bright yellow but no indication of breeding:
One of the two year old otto; think it is a male:
Very large female otto but this one was in the very back so you can't really tell the difference:
Subdominant male a. norbert:
The dominant male a. norbert made himself known but didn't stick around for a photo. As seems to be the case when i poke around - he will come out find 2 or 3 fishes to chase then go back to whatever he was doing before i poked:
Some updated picture after some 26 or so months; you can view earlier pages to see how things have changed:
Top looking down. The top used to be packed with floaters (frogbit/red root floaters). I replaced the input to the stump with that blue sponge at some point since smaller fishes kept figuring out how to get in there (and die); some how the sponge changed the surface current enough that the floaters died off. At some point i added some vals that I had pulled from a 29 when it was upgraded to a 100. For some reason the val seem to be growing slowly or slower than it does in the 100 which is now a dense forest.
A rather old male apistogramma bitaenita; i have two left in there both on their last legs. They were not super young when i received them 2 years ago so at least 3 years total age.
Some cardinals - i don't expect the norbert to breed but in truth the aquarium is complex enough I think they could if they want to - these guys are not super aggressive at eating unlike the Hyphessobrycon eilyos who gobble anything that moves - anyway i did not purchase them for this aquarium but rather the discus aquarium. Unfortunately they came in very small and i did not feel like giving the discus an expensive snack. If i could catch them i would move them to the discus tank now that they are larger but alas easier said then done.
Emerald eye rasbora around 2 years old. They seem quite robust - none have died - i have a 2nd group in a 29 and quite frankly i prefer them in the larger aquarium and would not buy them again for a 29. I like how they look when the water is very dark but in general i've trended towards the smaller Nannostomus and tetras these days - it just seem having more room to 'flex' works out better. Even the larger nannostomus like unifasciatus I find too larger in my 65 (48x16) (all my units are inches or feet).
That's all for today.
Top looking down. The top used to be packed with floaters (frogbit/red root floaters). I replaced the input to the stump with that blue sponge at some point since smaller fishes kept figuring out how to get in there (and die); some how the sponge changed the surface current enough that the floaters died off. At some point i added some vals that I had pulled from a 29 when it was upgraded to a 100. For some reason the val seem to be growing slowly or slower than it does in the 100 which is now a dense forest.
A rather old male apistogramma bitaenita; i have two left in there both on their last legs. They were not super young when i received them 2 years ago so at least 3 years total age.
Some cardinals - i don't expect the norbert to breed but in truth the aquarium is complex enough I think they could if they want to - these guys are not super aggressive at eating unlike the Hyphessobrycon eilyos who gobble anything that moves - anyway i did not purchase them for this aquarium but rather the discus aquarium. Unfortunately they came in very small and i did not feel like giving the discus an expensive snack. If i could catch them i would move them to the discus tank now that they are larger but alas easier said then done.
Emerald eye rasbora around 2 years old. They seem quite robust - none have died - i have a 2nd group in a 29 and quite frankly i prefer them in the larger aquarium and would not buy them again for a 29. I like how they look when the water is very dark but in general i've trended towards the smaller Nannostomus and tetras these days - it just seem having more room to 'flex' works out better. Even the larger nannostomus like unifasciatus I find too larger in my 65 (48x16) (all my units are inches or feet).
That's all for today.
Just a couple of pictures nothing interesting:
About 4 months? ago i added 4 of these:
The fourth one is doing well just elsewhere - long story - i have a 5th. The female norbert chased them for about 2 weeks but since then they seem to get along fine - the clear area is up front and they mostly stay in that area leaving most of the aquarium free for the norbert. I have a long term plan that is 3 years out for separating the species - my guess is it will take two years for the wvarani to mature. I have the female ortegai (those hybrid found in the wild) with my b. cupido (another aquarium) for the past 14 or so months - of course the ortegai cant' breed without a male (which i put elsewhere) and the b. cupido are extremely docile. The wavarni are a little nicer on the eye candy side but so far i've not seen much of a difference in behavior. Anyway these are pretty small - smaller than the male norberts right now. One of my female norberts looked like she spawned or wanted to spawn but i couldnt' find eggs. She kept dashing back to a piece of driftwood in the back - it has sort of an arch on it and i thought maybe she spawn on the underside.
This last picture show some kind of anubia which I can't recognize. The leaves are much longer than most species i have so maybe someone recognize it. It has been in there forever and i mostly ignore it but it is hard to see the bottom since it has firmly attached itself to some driftwood. It is richer green in rl the image got glared out reducing the colour intensity. It is grown submersed - this is during water change when the water level is fairly low (I do 40 gallon changes on this aquarium weekly).
About 4 months? ago i added 4 of these:
The fourth one is doing well just elsewhere - long story - i have a 5th. The female norbert chased them for about 2 weeks but since then they seem to get along fine - the clear area is up front and they mostly stay in that area leaving most of the aquarium free for the norbert. I have a long term plan that is 3 years out for separating the species - my guess is it will take two years for the wvarani to mature. I have the female ortegai (those hybrid found in the wild) with my b. cupido (another aquarium) for the past 14 or so months - of course the ortegai cant' breed without a male (which i put elsewhere) and the b. cupido are extremely docile. The wavarni are a little nicer on the eye candy side but so far i've not seen much of a difference in behavior. Anyway these are pretty small - smaller than the male norberts right now. One of my female norberts looked like she spawned or wanted to spawn but i couldnt' find eggs. She kept dashing back to a piece of driftwood in the back - it has sort of an arch on it and i thought maybe she spawn on the underside.
This last picture show some kind of anubia which I can't recognize. The leaves are much longer than most species i have so maybe someone recognize it. It has been in there forever and i mostly ignore it but it is hard to see the bottom since it has firmly attached itself to some driftwood. It is richer green in rl the image got glared out reducing the colour intensity. It is grown submersed - this is during water change when the water level is fairly low (I do 40 gallon changes on this aquarium weekly).
For this aquarium the last thing i added were the little wavarni (there was already an adult in there) on 8/2/2025.
For some other aquariums I added those lipstick pencil fishes which i will no longer buy due to being territorial.
I also added this guy to another aquarium:
And some of these to a 29 with my f1 a. nijjensi:
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I have nothing on my buy list for this aquarium - maybe some replacement hatchet fishes but probably not - and as long as the norbert do well i won't add anything significant.
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I have one free aquarium if something interesting pops up - maybe wc blue form elizabeth or wc d37 indria or one of the more eye candy agaszii or bitanita or maybe it will just not have a dwarf cichild in it for a while. We will see what hits the market next year. I'm in no hurry - I do hope my d39 spawn as i think they are lovely:
They also seem relatively tame in the 65. The other thing i like is they don't hide but they are not beggars - the nijjensi which is one of my favorite has the unfortunate behavior of being beggars and as i constantly mention everywhere the a. wolli won't let me look at them at all (been what 1.5 years 2 years) i can't even tell you how many are in there or if any of the f1 are males - they stay invisible.
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How funny. My A. wolli, which I've been keeping and breeding since I brought the species back from Peru in 2012, are always out in front. Not really beggars but always ignore me and go about their business.
Yea - i hope one day after i move in boulder to see if i can obtain a male if none of my f1 are males. Anyway this is a story that you might find interesting:
I have two groups of a. sp ladislo - one is a male with several females in a 40b and none of them really hide though the male is a bit more reclusive.
I put a 2nd group with another species in a 65 with 2 females and a male. None of those three hid.
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I had a 29 free up and so i moved the male and a female to the 29 about 1.5 years ago - i wanted the larger female but as soon as i caught the male she hid and has hid since then in the 65; the male i moved now hides in the 29 and he has hid in the 29 since the move (i see him approx once every 4 months); the female did not hide. After about 4 months i swapped the female with one from the 40b in hope that i could find a pair that would breed (neither group have bred) again the new female did not hide.
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fast forward 1.5 years later i tore down the 65 and caught the hiding female and move her to the 29 (moving the other female to the 40b). Now both the female and male in the 29 hide. The females i swap from the 40b to the 29 and back do not hide.
So for at least the past 6 weeks i've not seen the male or female a. ladisalo in the 29 (i do occasionally see a tail or something when i enter the room so i know they are alive).
For whatever reason i cannot get the a. ladisalo to spawn (too cold, too hot, not compatible pair but i tried multiple females for months at a time).
Anyway so now i have one set of hiding a. ladisalo (the other set in the 40b do not hide).
Now the a. wolli never were moved once introduced to the aquarium and one of the females used to hang out but she has since gone to hide since the male died (the male was defective and could never swim correctly - i talked about it in another thread - they did breed and i did get a few f1 that i still have but eventually after a year the male passed).
Have you added any new blood in that time?
I have had the same colony of N.multifasciatus for at least 20 years apart from about 3 others I added about 12 years ago.
I see no signs of inbreeding as all fry look perfect. The colony in an 80 litre cube tank always self regulate the population to about 25 individuals.
These fish are a joy to keep, my favourites in terms of personality and temperament.
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martin_c wrote on illumnae's profile.
Hi,
just in case you happen to live in Germany (or Netherlands): I have a wildcaught female A. psammophila, you could have it for free. I have no use for it anymore.
BR
Martin
just in case you happen to live in Germany (or Netherlands): I have a wildcaught female A. psammophila, you could have it for free. I have no use for it anymore.
BR
Martin