Eclipse System 6

[Pacapal]

I know that some will think me crazy to even consider it and yes I read the post on the System 12, but I have a System 6 sitting around doing nothing and would like to put a pair of Apistos in it along with maybe 5 tetras. I was thinking of one of the smaller varieties like maybe A. borellii or A. trifasciata --also like German blue rams and love Pelvicachromis taeniatus "mokoure" though I realize the P. taeniatus is probably too big for this application.

I plan to have this tank very densely planted ala Takashi Amano, so there will be plenty of cover. I have an RO system and can create whatever water specifics I need to. Does this sound feasible to anyone out there or am I asking for trouble? What would be the best species to go with in this type of situation? Some I have not considered? Or none at all? Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[Randall]

Six-Gallon Apistos

Dear Pacapal,

Others may not agree, but I think a six-gallon aquarium, Eclipse or otherwise, is simply too small to house Apistogramma species.

Sorry.

Randall Kohn

 

[farm41]

I agree with Randall, too small.

Maybe use it for a QT or a betta tank.

 

[Neil]

Pacapal,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Well, here's the voice of moderation, even in dealing in extremes. 8O Although I agree with the idea that a 6g. tank would not be appropriate for long term husbandry of most apisto species, I do think that they can be used. Ask Z-man! I have used 5.5g. many times for breeding in a space pinch. Additionally I have used those same tanks for longer housing of certain types of very small apsito. Some species don't get a heck of alot bigger than 1.5 inches for the male and barely an inch for the female (minima, etc.). Trifasciata is probably small enough, but can be a little aggressive. Borellii has the right temperment, but probably is a touch too big.
If you are set on putting an Apistogramma species in there, you may want to put a lone male. If you have to have a pair, be prepared to move one or the other out when and if trouble starts. And think about moving up to at least a 10g. soon.
Good luck,
Neil

 

[Z Man]

It looks like I have been pulled in here. Neil, you know I am here twice a day, so I will answer. If I had an Eclipse6 given to me I would try the Borelli in it if planted correctly with a few good hiding places. Maybe just 0ne albino cory but nothing else. It's not a good breeding set-up though. Pacapal, if you don't mind the possibility of loosing a fish, I think it's worth a try as long as you already have the tank. I just think they are overpriced for what you get but that's just my opinion. Right now I have a breeding pair of Cacatuoides 'Orange Flash' in 5.5 with just 2 pots and a sponge filter. They just get along fine and they have been together for about 6 month's now. I have had two spawns from them so far. A little larger tank would be better but you have to work with what you have.
"Z"

 

[Randall]

Spawning in Small Quarters

Dear Pacapal,

Please understand that unlike the rest of us, Neil and Z man can successfully spawn a shoal of ravenous adult red-bellied Piranhas in a Dixie cup.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Pacapal]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your frank opinions--I expected to get both sides and Matt & Randall may very well have the opportunity to say "I told you so" before I am through (although I intend to succeed at this if, in fact, I decide to do it.)

Some questions then for Randall & Mr. Z:

Regarding the A. "minima" variety that Randall mentioned--I can't find any pics of them or places available--any suggestions?

Regarding Randall's suggetion about keeping a solo male--do some varieties of Apisto males have better non breeding coloration than others? If I was going to go this route what variety would you reccomend? (though this doesn't sound nearly as appealing as keeping a pair)

I really like the Borelli "opal' and may give Mr. Z's suggestion a try.
Any other advice to promote harmony Mr. Z? I assume that I want to dense plant the tank? Any other tips? Skip the tetras? No dither fish needed?

Would W. A. shell dwellers be a better option for this application than Apistos? I really like Lamprologus caudopunctatus but fear they are also too big for a 6.

I live in northern Ohio between Akron & Cleveland--any suggestions on where to look for & buy good specimens?

Thanks to all of you--I appreciate your willingness to take the time to share your opinions and knowledge.

Regards,

David

 

[Pacapal]

Begging you pardon, gentlemen--in my last post, all references to "Randall" after the first paragraph should have, instead, been "Neil" My apologies for confusing the two of you

Regards,

David

 

[Neil]

Randall,
I would actually only work with a shoal of ravenous adult red-bellied Piranhas in a 12oz slurpie cup. The dixie would be for sub-adults!

David,
No problem on the name confusion. I don't mind being cofused for Randall. That would be a compliment.

Regarding the A. "minima" variety that Randall mentioned--I can't find any pics of them or places available--any suggestions?

Minima is, to the best of my knowledge, the smallest apisto species. I don't know where you would find a pic or the actual fish. Sorry.

Regarding Randall's suggetion about keeping a solo male--do some varieties of Apisto males have better non breeding coloration than others?

That's a pretty tall order. Find some species that you have seen pics of and like and post. We can try and give you specifics about them.

Neil

 

[Pacapal]

Neil.

Ok, how about either agassizii double red or bitaeniata for solo males? What kind of coloration can I expect without the presence of a female? Not as good as this surely:

http://www.aquajapan.com/encyc/cichlid/cichlidae/apistogramma/bitaeniata_e.html

or this?:

http://www.aquajapan.com/encyc/cichlid/cichlidae/apistogramma/agassiziisuperred_e.html

Here are a couple that I'm wondering about to do as pairs in the System 6:

Apistogramma cruzi -- pics can be seen at link below:

http://www.aquajapan.com/encyc/cichlid/cichlidae/apistogramma/cruzi_e.html

Also.....Apistogramma diplotaenia -- pics can be seen at link below:

http://www.aquajapan.com/encyc/cichlid/cichlidae/apistogramma/diplotaenia_e.html

These seem sized more like borellii & trifasciata. Would either make more sense than the borellii to do as a pair?

Thanks again for your input........

David

 

[Z Man]

I don't ever go by photo's that many times are of 'show' fish or lighting enhanced. Any Cruzi that I ever had looked good but nothing like that photo. They are one of the more drab colored Apisto's IMHO. As for Diplotaenia, they are pretty rare yet and on the very expensive side along with Elizabethae. You really have to "look at" in person what is available. All the photo's you see posted anywhere are the one that sticks out in a group of 50 or more. If you find a nice color morph, one has to keep working with it for a few generations to get just one that is spectacular.

 

[Pacapal]

Question for Neil

Neil,

How about a pair of Apistogramma sp. "Freasa " for this application? I've read some of your other posts about them and they sound like they are the right size. How about temperment? Are they more laid back like the borellii? Just wondering...........

David

 

[Z Man]

Pacapal; I have to say this. I don't know about anyone else here but I have probably lost more money on fish and fish combinations than most of them. I start almost every pair in a 5 and work from there. I have bred 25 different Apisto's to date but probably have killed or lost again that many. I try things and if they don't work, I try something different next time. We all learned from our mistakes and if anyone ever tells you that they never had fish die on them, they are lying. You just have to expect losses and hope for the best. Many times what works for me, never works for someone else. I have many times sold pairs at auctions because I couldn't breed them only to have the new owner call me and tell of the beautiful spawn they got from my pair a few days later. Go figure!

 

[2la]

If I may make a suggestion here, and bear in mind I make these comments not to discourage you from attempting any undertaking but only to help you increase your chances of meeting with success:

I think you should consider what type of habitat (clearwater, whitewater, blackwater) your fish of interest come(s) from, as this often correlates with adaptability to certain water parameters and--in a sense--how "hardy" a species is. In 6 gallons of water, things can change pretty quickly, and it takes some effort to keep conditions stable. Thus, it might be more difficult to keep blackwater species such as nissenji, etc. That said, agassizii is so domesticated that they stand a good chance of succeeding in your tank, though I'm not sure how "pleased" the fish would be in just 6 gallons of water. But, that's another story altogether, and I just wanted to bring up the issue of hardiness in light of the small volume of water.

Also, as Z Man said not all fish live up to their photographic billing, partly because of photographing or -editing tricks but also because of individual variation within the species. A solo male of any species is NOT going to show off its best colors consistenly; however, you can place a mirror next to the side of the tank, and it will put on its most spectacular threat display. I've used this trick many times in photographing my apistos. Bearing this trick in mind, if the fish still isn't colorful despite displaying in front of the mirror, it will NEVER be any more colorful. Personally, I'd prefer you reserve your apisto(s) for a bigger tank, but I wish you the best in your efforts regardless. Apistos are a wonderful experience!