Apistos for a 30 gallon?

[jackywacky]

Hey yall! i’m interested in some apistogramma for my 30 gallon planted tank, i plan to redo it and want an awesome stocking centered around a pair or trio of apistogramma. the tank is a fluval mega flex.

1. what species of apistos should i do, do some do better in planted tanks vs not?

2. what schooling species of tetra?

3. any other species?

i would love a breeding pair but would the male beat the female to death cause he wants to breed so much? would i be better with a trio? i really would love a breeding pair though just for the fun of it

Thanks in advance yall!

 

[Mike Wise]

Do you want a community tank or a breeding tank? It's nearly impossible to have both.

 

[jackywacky]

Do you want a community tank or a breeding tank? It's nearly impossible to have both.

preferably a community tank

 

[MacZ]

Then forget breeding.
When it comes to tanksize your tank is allright for pretty much every species, as long as it is properly and appropriately equipped and decorated. Fine sand, leaf litter, properly structured with driftwood is the bare minimum. Plants are secondary for the fish, but biologically necessary. Aim for fast growers like Hydrocotyle leucocephala and floaters of all kinds.
If the cichlids are to shine combine them with fitting tetras or pencilfish. For a community just get a single male, and you will be content, believe me.

 

[jackywacky]

Then forget breeding.
When it comes to tanksize your tank is allright for pretty much every species, as long as it is properly and appropriately equipped and decorated. Fine sand, leaf litter, properly structured with driftwood is the bare minimum. Plants are secondary for the fish, but biologically necessary. Aim for fast growers like Hydrocotyle leucocephala and floaters of all kinds.
If the cichlids are to shine combine them with fitting tetras or pencilfish. For a community just get a single male, and you will be content, believe me.

thank you!

 

[jackywacky]

Then forget breeding.
When it comes to tanksize your tank is allright for pretty much every species, as long as it is properly and appropriately equipped and decorated. Fine sand, leaf litter, properly structured with driftwood is the bare minimum. Plants are secondary for the fish, but biologically necessary. Aim for fast growers like Hydrocotyle leucocephala and floaters of all kinds.
If the cichlids are to shine combine them with fitting tetras or pencilfish. For a community just get a single male, and you will be content, believe me.

any clean up crew recommendations?

 

[MacZ]

any clean up crew recommendations?

None at all. Clean up crews are a concept introduced by retailers to sell more fish. Apistos forage for food in leaf litter and by chewing sand and mulm all day. Aufwuchs and algae use up surplus nutrients, which slip by fast growing plants.

 

[Gamegurl]

You know a lot about Apistos I'll give you that but where do you come up with your blatant comment about "cleaners"
Snails, and shrimp keep up with algae and keep the plants clean.
Not just a retail ploy

 

[MacZ]

Snails come with plants for free, I don't count those. Shrimp don't make it long in softwater, so I don't count those either (except Amanos maybe, which are quite big and really need hard water).
I'm thinking of Otocinclus, Plecos, Siamese Algae Eaters for Algae and Corydoras or loaches for the bottom and the like. They are not necessary in so far as in a properly set up aquarium algae should not pose a problem and additionally tweaking lights, nutrients and CO2 do much more in reducing algae (if one does wish so), than any of those animals. Besides a lot if algae come and go within the first year of a tank whether one chooses to act or not.

Otocinclus starve if introduced too early due to lack of aufwuchs and algae and plecos are usually not as specialized in eating anything aufwuchs-like as people thing with bristlenose being omnivores and Panaqolus e.g. being on a wood based diet, SAEs eat only certain kinds of algae. If there are none of those food sources these fish have to be fed purposefully instead, adding bioload and waste to the system that wouldn't be there in the first place. Corydoras and loaches on the other hand compete with dwarf cichlids for food, as they are also bottomfeeders. If the system should be out of balance from the start for whatever reason those fish make things worse, and are no help.

So if a store clerk advises to immediately add algae eaters or any kind of cleaner he's a good salesperson, but has missed actually advising the customer and introducing them to the bare necessities of fishkeeping. Many might not see this as their job, but if they don't tell people, many only learn after crashing a tank due to lack of knowledge. In other words: Animals have likely died before people learn.

Now tell me: What does offering a clean up crew to a new tank owner do except raising the store's profit?

 

[Paul1006]

Hey yall! i’m interested in some apistogramma for my 30 gallon planted tank, i plan to redo it and want an awesome stocking centered around a pair or trio of apistogramma. the tank is a fluval mega flex.

1. what species of apistos should i do, do some do better in planted tanks vs not?

2. what schooling species of tetra?

3. any other species?

i would love a breeding pair but would the male beat the female to death cause he wants to breed so much? would i be better with a trio? i really would love a breeding pair though just for the fun of it

Thanks in advance yall

 

[Paul1006]

Any Apisto would work well in a MegaFlex but assuming you want a colorful centerpiece you can’t go wrong with Caucatoides, Hongsloi, or Macmasteri plus they’re generally easy to find. Pencilfish are great dithers as their mouths are too small to eat fry and they stay mostly in the top 1/3 of the tank. In my experience Apistos do really well in planted tanks.

 

[anewbie]

Snails come with plants for free, I don't count those. Shrimp don't make it long in softwater, so I don't count those either (except Amanos maybe, which are quite big and really need hard water).
I'm thinking of Otocinclus, Plecos, Siamese Algae Eaters for Algae and Corydoras or loaches for the bottom and the like. They are not necessary in so far as in a properly set up aquarium algae should not pose a problem and additionally tweaking lights, nutrients and CO2 do much more in reducing algae (if one does wish so), than any of those animals. Besides a lot if algae come and go within the first year of a tank whether one chooses to act or not.

Otocinclus starve if introduced too early due to lack of aufwuchs and algae and plecos are usually not as specialized in eating anything aufwuchs-like as people thing with bristlenose being omnivores and Panaqolus e.g. being on a wood based diet, SAEs eat only certain kinds of algae. If there are none of those food sources these fish have to be fed purposefully instead, adding bioload and waste to the system that wouldn't be there in the first place. Corydoras and loaches on the other hand compete with dwarf cichlids for food, as they are also bottomfeeders. If the system should be out of balance from the start for whatever reason those fish make things worse, and are no help.

So if a store clerk advises to immediately add algae eaters or any kind of cleaner he's a good salesperson, but has missed actually advising the customer and introducing them to the bare necessities of fishkeeping. Many might not see this as their job, but if they don't tell people, many only learn after crashing a tank due to lack of knowledge. In other words: Animals have likely died before people learn.

Now tell me: What does offering a clean up crew to a new tank owner do except raising the store's profit?

Actually i have a group of cardinal shrimp that have done ok in relatively soft water (tds 120). It isn't blackwater but they do manage - i've heard of one person with a small colony in blackwater but i forget who it was and if they have done ok after several years.

Most 'algae' eaters actually eat biofilm than actual agae (I think MacZ said this); anyway don't depend on 'algae' eaters controlling your algae the best solution there is balance and it can take a year for an aquarium to fall into balance. Btw over feeding will trigger large algae outbreak...

 

[jackywacky]

Snails come with plants for free, I don't count those. Shrimp don't make it long in softwater, so I don't count those either (except Amanos maybe, which are quite big and really need hard water).
I'm thinking of Otocinclus, Plecos, Siamese Algae Eaters for Algae and Corydoras or loaches for the bottom and the like. They are not necessary in so far as in a properly set up aquarium algae should not pose a problem and additionally tweaking lights, nutrients and CO2 do much more in reducing algae (if one does wish so), than any of those animals. Besides a lot if algae come and go within the first year of a tank whether one chooses to act or not.

Otocinclus starve if introduced too early due to lack of aufwuchs and algae and plecos are usually not as specialized in eating anything aufwuchs-like as people thing with bristlenose being omnivores and Panaqolus e.g. being on a wood based diet, SAEs eat only certain kinds of algae. If there are none of those food sources these fish have to be fed purposefully instead, adding bioload and waste to the system that wouldn't be there in the first place. Corydoras and loaches on the other hand compete with dwarf cichlids for food, as they are also bottomfeeders. If the system should be out of balance from the start for whatever reason those fish make things worse, and are no help.

So if a store clerk advises to immediately add algae eaters or any kind of cleaner he's a good salesperson, but has missed actually advising the customer and introducing them to the bare necessities of fishkeeping. Many might not see this as their job, but if they don't tell people, many only learn after crashing a tank due to lack of knowledge. In other words: Animals have likely died before people learn.

Now tell me: What does offering a clean up crew to a new tank owner do except raising the store's profit?

it offers nothing… this is so insightful thank you! i used to be on fishlore but kinda forgot and quit about it a while ago and my tanks have been smooth sailing but im back up again with them!

 

[jackywacky]

Any Apisto would work well in a MegaFlex but assuming you want a colorful centerpiece you can’t go wrong with Caucatoides, Hongsloi, or Macmasteri plus they’re generally easy to find. Pencilfish are great dithers as their mouths are too small to eat fry and they stay mostly in the top 1/3 of the tank. In my experience Apistos do really well in planted tanks.

so you think i should do a breeding pair?

 

[Mike Wise]

so you think i should do a breeding pair?

That is a guarantee for having a stressful bunch of fish.

 

[MacZ]

so you think i should do a breeding pair?

I think they just mentioned that advantage of pencilfish by principle, in a community they are simply good because the barely interfere with the cichlids.

 

[Paul1006]

That is a guarantee for having a stressful bunch of fish.

I’ve bred Nijsseni, Hongsloi, Macmasteri & Caucatoides successfully with small tetras/pencilfish as dithers as well as Corys in planted tanks as small as 20Ls. As long as you give them someplace to set up shop they’ll be fine. I’ve also had success with the same setup with many other dwarf cichlids.

 

[MacZ]

Is it possible? Yes, we all know that.

But if someone is going to set up a dedicated community tank they expect an aggression free tank and I simply cannot believe you've never seen anything in your tanks.

Although it's clear that people start to talk about stress at different points. I would guess you speak of stress at higher stress levels than Mike and me.

 

[Paul1006]

Is it possible? Yes, we all know that.

But if someone is going to set up a dedicated community tank they expect an aggression free tank and I simply cannot believe you've never seen anything in your tanks.

Although it's clear that people start to talk about stress at different points. I would guess you speak of stress at higher stress levels than Mike and me.

There’s bluster & then there’s aggression. Give Apistos a tank where they can setup shop and feel “safe” for example a cave in the middle of sight breaks and in my experience you may get a blustery display but next to no actual aggressive chasing.

 

[Paul1006]

Also lets be very clear I’m not going out of my to breed Apistos but if you set the tank up to their liking they will spawn regularly without much encouragement. Again in my experience.