A. Borellii breeding in 10 gallons

[esarkipato]

I've got a 10 gallon (~38L) tank that is 20" (51cm). It's planted and has at least 2 well-built territories with caves. The tank is over a year old. I recently put 3 Apisto. Borellii from the LFS in there, hoping to get a pair and see some reproduction. The are about 1.3-1.5" long head to tail. I've been feeding them live baby brine shrimp, spirulina flakes, and they've been snacking on baby cherry shrimp too. The substrate is sand, with 30 watts of NO fluorescent lighting. I also have some peat in the filter to lower hardness/PH.

ISSUE #1
There has quickly developed a "pecking order", or hierarchy between the 3. One, the king (or queen) of the tank, dashes at either of the other 2 if he sees them and chases them without fail. Of the other two, one looks much more healthy with a full stomach, but really stressed out. BUT he refuses to establish his own territory and defend, spends much time cowering or hiding. The lowest fish on the totem pole is really, really stressed with a hollow stomach and is likely going to be dead when I get home, at least I suspect.

Is this too many fish in the 10g? There are NO tankmates, less shrimp and snails. Maybe not enough fish to establish a pair? How would you suggest going about trying to get a mating pair with this tank?

ISSUE #2
I would like to try and identify these fish as the actual Borllii, as opposed to some of the other strains/hybrids I've read about. The fish are still 1.3-1.5 inches long nose to tail, so pretty young I think. The coloration is poor, very pale. EXCEPT there is a cool looking blue squiggly-type design on the face/ head of the fish. Does this sound like your typical borellii?? Also, would you expect the fish to color up as it gets older?

Thanks for reading....and for any advice!

 

[Mike Wise]

This sounds more like the Blue-head/Steel-blue Apisto than it does A. borellii. The Blue-head often is sold as A. borellii. We would need a decent photo to be certain. If it is the Blue-head, there is a very good chance that you have all males (90%+ of all Blue-heads sold are males). This could be the cause of all of the aggression: 3 males in a small tank.

 

[esarkipato]

http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5491/resticulosa.html

The above photo and reference looks near exactly like my fish.

You aren't the first person to suggest that I have all males

 

[aquaticclarity]

That is a picture of a "steel blue". Don't feel to bad, a lot of people have tries to keep a group of all male "steel blue"s together and ended up with the same problem you are having.

Jeff

 

[morello]

i work in a fish shop and we ordered 30+ A. borelli, thinking now they are could be steel blue's which is a bit disapointing. they are nearly all male i think too :/

 

[Zack Wilson]

Hey sorry to hear about the problems there. I see these "steel blues" coming in as borellii all the time in the local markets too. That or agassizi. Most shop owners are unaware of the issue.

On the possible plus side, I have a lot of young borellii, the real borellii, that are just starting to sex out, and I just found another spawn in the adult's tank again today. If you're willing to pay for shipping, I'd be willing to send you a young pair to grow out in your tank. They would do fine in your tank. and probably have babies for you soon too.

 

[brad]

How is everyone getting only males. There has to be females to make more males. lol.

Hey Zack, I've been looking for Borelli for quite a while and those are the nicest I've seen. Straight photos with no touch-ups?

 

[Zack Wilson]

Well, I did powder his nose a little before that shoot, but....

seriously all I had to do was crop that shot. You can see more of some of the other males on my site, and I have folks who've been over and seen them or bought some from me who can attest to their beauty too, besides me. They're one of my favs. However aside from the red cheeks I didn't think the rest of their coloration was that atypical. I've had some nice borellii in the past too, though maybe not quite as blue.

 

[Mike Wise]

How is everyone getting only males. There has to be females to make more males. lol.

No one really knows why mostly Steel-blue/Blue-head males are produced. It could be that only males are selected for shipment, that the crossing of species caused some sort of genetic defect that kills females, or that they are bred at the wrong temperature. Once more people breed this fish in their own tanks, using the rare females that do appear, maybe we will know for certain.

 

[brad]

Well they are listed on my lfs's supplier's list as agassizi Steel blue. Says right on the list "males only", though it also says that for bettas, gouramis, paradise fish..........

Zack, I checked out your site. Congrats, you<ve some beautiful photos there. I'd be happy to finally find a pair of Borelli as nice as that.

 

[Zack Wilson]

So I'm still a little unclear about the steel-blues though...are they a naturally occurring species and we are simply seeing a product of selective asian breeding, or are these some sort of hybrid/mutant? CA2 seems to indicate these are a natural type of Apisto, which would suggest hormonal influence or hand-selection on the part of the asian suppliers. But then I've also heard it suggested that these are man-made and I don't generally hear of any coming in with wild imports. So do we know yet, or are we still speculating?

Thanks for the compliment, Brad. Looking back at my photo gallery you can definitely see my fish photography skills improving. Some of those pics are 7 years old, which for me is a lot. Still learning of course, but I'm starting to like what I see a lot better. Having a better camera also made a big difference. I'd love to be able to go back and reshoot alot of those fish now. That, and I really need to find a way to reorganize my photo gallery, but I'm somewhat clueless about web design stuff. A friend of mine says that I could create some sort of menu system with Flash to shorten my page, but I don't know how.

 

[Mike Wise]

So I'm still a little unclear about the steel-blues though...are they a naturally occurring species and we are simply seeing a product of selective asian breeding, or are these some sort of hybrid/mutant? CA2 seems to indicate these are a natural type of Apisto, which would suggest hormonal influence or hand-selection on the part of the asian suppliers. But then I've also heard it suggested that these are man-made and I don't generally hear of any coming in with wild imports. So do we know yet, or are we still speculating?

Zack, we are all still speculating. I translated this chapter for Uwe's book and have re-read it. Nowhere does it indicate that it is naturally occurring. Uwe writes that cluster analyses classify it close to A. resticulosa. I accept this. If it is a hybrid, there is no doubt that it is crossed with at least one species of the resticulosa-complex. Everyone's speculations are based on the origins (& lack of a natural one) & its features (a mix of different features found in different species-complexes - but not found in nature). Until we find this species in the wild, I doubt that the opinion - that it is a domestic hybrid (similar to the Red Swordtail/Helleri) - will ever go away. If one truly likes such fish (hybrids), that's wonderful; keep them. There is nothing wrong with keeping them. If one doesn't like it, one doesn't have to keep it.

 

[Zack Wilson]

My apologies. I actually was referring to the section in CA1. I don't have CA2 yet...maybe subconscious desire? I don't personally care all that much if they are an aquarium strain or hybrid, but I get asked this often and haven't been entirely sure of my answer lately. I thought I new that I didn't know for sure, but I wasn't sure if I shouldn't know.

It's seemed lately that after a few years of being away from the hobby it's still the same---everything is changing all the time. It's nice to know there are a few things it's okay not to know.

 

[Apistomaster]

I didn't realize there were so many of these unknown background steel blue Apistos marketed. I sure don't see why anyone would bother producing an onery dull blue Apisto that doesn't have females available.

Borelli's are so much prettier in color and finnage. Easy to breed and moree peaceful. I have nice Opals from a pair of wild caught that are producing F4 gens after about my 4TH year of keeping them again. I just barely keep them going but now I am going to expand my production.