A. Black Chin/Schwarzkinn

[raymond82]

Hi,

Lately, one of my favorite pastimes is browsing around on Tom C's website and making lists of apisto's I would like to keep at some point. I have a lots of pretty long lists now...

The species that is always on top of the list is A. Black chin. Recently I ran into someone who said he has also been looking for this species for a while, so I figured I could ask here if it is actually available. Are there people breeding this species?

Thanks!

 

[tjudy]

I have a trio, but they are not spawning for me yet.... not sure why not. They are mature and healthy.

 

[Mike Wise]

This species is commonly imported from Peru - usually under the incorrect name "A. juruense" or "A. juruensis".

 

[raymond82]

I had heard about the juruense/juruensus confusion. Happy to hear the fish is out there, I have no clue about the availability of the different species. Of course, i realized that you're all in the US so availability might be different here in Europe. Truth is, I haven't heard about importers in Europe that import wild fish. I'll post the same question in the BCA to see what we have on this side of the Atlantic.

The lack of breeding is an interesting subject, I have been walking around with some questions about it that I will ask in a new thread.

 

[Tom C]

.... I haven't heard about importers in Europe that import wild fish. ...

You can't be serious? There are loads of wild fish comming from South America in to Europe every week.
The closest to you is probably the shop Aqua-Ferrytale. Looking at their stock history shows that they have imported wild A. "juruense" earlier. Although they doesn't have this species in their stocklist right now, they invite people to contact them when in need of any of the earlier imported species.
Good luck in your search! There used be several people keeping the A. sp. "Schwarzkinn/Black-chin" in the UK.
(I'd happily give you a pair or fry if the distance hadn't made it so difficult)

 

[raymond82]

Hi Tom, you're right of course, when I said I hadn't heard of importers it's mainly cause I'm very new to apistogramma keeping and I just don't know who's where. I was already suspecting that fish comes into Europe, I just haven't seen something as clear as for instance Aquatic Clarity where you can just pick from a list regularly. Aqua-ferrytale is indeed a good hint, although I have to say that their stocklist hasn't changed since I was there in December. But their stock history is impressive, next time I go I'll ask specifically what species they can get access to.

I am in touch now with someone who imports fish from Germany (which I get the feeling is apisto paradise) but he also couldn't find the Schwarzkinn. That's what made me ask this question, since I was thinking that maybe it's very hard to get by. I'll also ask the same question in the BCA forum

 

[Tom C]

The huge German company Aquarium Glaser imports wild fish from South America (included Peru) every week.
They send their fish all over Europe. The don't sell to persons, but any shop near you could order fish from them.

Glaser's stock list this week includes the following Apistogramma:

614003 Apistogramma agassizi GOLD/RED
614103 Apisto.agassizi BLUE-FORM wild
614503 Apistogramma agassizi RED TAIL
614603 Apisto.agassizi DOUBLE RED
614853 Ap.agassizi MANACAPURU g.br.
614873 Apisto.agassizi FIRE-RED g.br.
615073 Ap.bitaeniata YELLOW NAPO wild
615503 Apisto.borelli/reitzigi g.br.
615704 Apisto.borelli/PARAGUAY wild
617203 Apistogramma cacatuoides wild
617313 Apisto.cacatuoides GOLD/ORANGE
617314 Apisto.cacatuoides GOLD/ORANGE
617503 Apisto.cacatuoides RED TAIL
617513 Apisto.cacatuoides DOUBLE RED
618033 Apistogramma caetei XINGU
618704 Ap.elizabethae/RED BELLY g.br.
618712 Ap.elizabethae SAO GABRIEL wi.
619503 Apistogramma gephyra wild
620003 Apistogramma gibbiceps wild
621503 Apistogramma hongsloi/RED LINE
621603 Apisto.hongsloi/FARBF.ll g.br.
622554 Apistogramma iniridae wild
622723 Apis.juruensis/BLACK CHIN wild
622732 Apisto.sp.aff.juruense wild
624504 Apistogramma macmasteri g.br.
624952 Ap.sp.MIXED SAO GABRIEL wild
624984 Apis.sp.MOUTHBREEDER (barlowi)
625003 Apistogramma nijsseni g.br.
625104 Apistogramma nijsseni wild
625203 Apistogramma norberti wild
626203 Apistogramma panduro wild
626204 Apistogramma panduro wild
626764 Apistogramma pulchra g.br.
628703 Apisto.borellii OPAL g.br.
628734 Apistogr.sp.PERU "MASKEN" wild
628813 Apisto.baenschi (INKA I) wild
629013 Apisto.steindachneri g.br.
630024 Apis.trifasciatum RED FIN wild
630503 Apistogramma viejita
630603 Apisto.viejita FARBFORM II
630633 Apistogramma viejita GOLD g.br
630703 Apistogramma sp.WILHELMI g.br.
(g.br. = German bred)

As you see, they have wild fish of the species you are looking for......

 

[aquaticclarity]

WOW! I wish I had access to that many Brazilian Apistos!!!

 

[animalmgc]

630703 Apistogramma sp.WILHELMI g.br.
my ultimate want whos ordering

 

[Racine Vice]

WOW! I wish I had access to that many Brazilian Apistos!!!

I wish you did too!

 

[AndySch]

Hi Tom,

i know this lists,

but not all of them are the right names.
Example the viejita gold breedet are macmasterie, also the viejita an viejita2, i dont think that these Fishes are the right fishes,

i will see o become pictures.

 

[Mike Wise]

624952 Ap.sp.MIXED SAO GABRIEL wild is my dream come true. Think of all of the odd apistos/dwarf cichlids that come from the upper Rio Negro that are shipped from São Gabriel!

 

[raymond82]

I would like to apologize for my initial ignorance regarding European importers. This is a very amazing list! Not just the Schwarzkinn but also the Barlowi and wild Nijsseni, Norberti, Baenschi and Bitaeniata. That’s more or less the top 6 of species that I had put in my little whish list...

However, I don’t consider myself experienced enough to keep wild fish, I wouldn’t want to make a mistake and risk the live of a wild caught fish. But I will definitely inquire at my favourite fish store about the possibility of ordering here in the future.

In the mean time I asked about A. Schwarzkinn in the BCA forum and Darren Evans replied that quite a number of people breed this fish in the UK so I have good hope that I might get to it once!

 

[Mike Wise]

Why the fear of keeping wild-caught fish?? After proper acclimation, I find them as strong - if not stronger - as domestic fish.

 

[HaakonH]

I boldly asked Frank Schäfer about pictures of that Sao Gabriel mix, in case he would like some input on what the mix consists of, but haven't heard back yet. They had diplotaenia listed a week ago as well, so I suppose they got a good shipment in lately. And then there's that "caetei Xingu" again...makes me wonder if it's the same one listed from Czech exporters or not, which I just ordered a pair of. Should be interesting to see what arrives.

Haakon

 

[raymond82]

Regarding the wild fish, I was under the impression that keeping the water values straight is even more important with wild fish. I'm still learning a lot about fish keeping and also still have some (beginners) problems, like a recent camallanus infection and again I had a nitrite spikes in peat treated water (I posted about this before). I'm still in the process of optimizing my water preparation routines. If a fish came all the way from the wild I'd feel obliged to have everything perfect to allow them to breed. For now I first want to have my aquarium strain apistogramma's breed, but after that I would like to have wild fish at some point.

I got a little puzzled by the Glaser website, is what they list under "fish archive" what they currently have available?

 

[HaakonH]

Many types of wild fish need extra special care, because they often show signs of having been "on the road" for quite a while. It's not unusual for many wild caught Apistos to be very under-nurished and stressed by the time they reach your local shop. Also, many of the wild caught ones refuse to eat various kinds of food, meaning you may have to offer them certain kinds of frozen/live foods like i.e. Brine Shrimp (Artemia), as dry foods are completely ignored. Domestically raised fish is however often, but certainly not always, more likely to accept various kinds of food even including some dry foods. Then there's the water-issue, read up on what each species needs. Many wild ones are more picky as far as water parameters and quality is concerned, but most Apistos demand more than many other kinds of fish to thrive. But be aware, many of the domestically raised strains of Apistogramma are weak and inbred, not all large-scale breeders out there offer good quality. Once settled (and well cared for), wild fish are usually stronger and even more beautiful.

Glaser's fish archive doesn't have anything to do with their current stocklist. It's just a database to show off various imports they have made over the years.

Haakon

 

[raymond82]

This is exactly the idea I had about wild fish. The food would not be a problem cause we have a lot of live food available around here. The water however, especially if it is extreme as the black water, I think takes a bit of experience to keep stable. So first I'm gonna gain experience and then I will try with the wild ones. I would love to, cause I do believe they are more beautiful.

Glaser's fish archive doesn't have anything to do with their current stocklist. It's just a database to show off various imports they have made over the years.

That's what I thought, but brings me to an obvious question: where can I find the stocklist? I would like to check this company regularly.

 

[HaakonH]

Glaser's stocklist is not intended for the public. They only sell to shops and dealers, so to get the list you will need to be a customer of them or know someone who is and don't mind sharing the list with you. I do however see the list posted at various sites without the prices, though it doesn't say that it's Glaser's list it's easily recognizable. Like here:

http://www.diskusmann.de/_start.htm

Haakon

 

[raymond82]

That makes sense. Well for now I have plenty of work to do with the species I have, and most likely I'll get some special ones in an upcoming convention in March. When in the future I want to get hold of wild fish I'll drop a note here and hope someone would be willing to share some info with me. And of course i could always ask in the fish store, they will probably have access.