Male or Females?

[nandemonai]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum so hello

I got these two Apistos about a 2 weeks ago now. They're very young and it was very hard to sex them in the shop but the LFS guy did his best.

I was told they're Apistogramma Cacatouides (Sunburst / Orange Flash) which I believe is accurate.

I originally thought I had 1 male and 1 female (one was darker and larger) however I'm starting to think I have two females.

What do you think?

Female:

http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0244.jpg

Male?:

http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0246.jpg
http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0249.jpg
http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0279.jpg
http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0281.jpg

Together:

http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0276.jpg
http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0278.jpg

* Apologies if this is a double post, it didn't seem to work first time.

 

[aquaticclarity]

The links to your pictures don't work! Either try loading the pictures again or use a different service like www.photobucket.com

 

[nandemonai]

Ok they should work now, seems like an issue when I pasted them. Also I have a video here that may help identify them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=754vmHlDdfM

Appreciated guys!

 

[Mike Wise]

Sorry to say, but your photos are not good enough for an accurate ID. Personally, the extensive black color on the ventral fins of your 'male' would worry me. This is more typically seen on females. Truthfully, the 'male' looks very much like some older female A. cacatuoides that I've had. Older females often develop slightly more masculine features like serrated dorsal fin (very slight) and squared-off caudal fin with very short tips. BTW, your 'female' doesn't seem to show much black on the ventral fins. It might be a young male. I honestly can't say without better photos and more info, especially the size of the fish.

 

[nandemonai]

Thanks for trying Mike, the photos are from a phone hence the quality. I had similar thoughts actually regarding them maybe being an older female and young male (ie reverse of what I originally thought they were). This would make sense in that the 'female' actually has a more male looking crest.

At what age should males develop clear male traits? I don't actually know how old they are but they are very small still, the larger being around 3cm, smaller 2cm. I know they're still very young.

I'm so confused, I guess time will tell. I will note that the larger one sure is 'acting' like a male in that it does harass the smaller one a little. Nothing too violent but the occasional shuv here and there. Do females of the species act this way too?

Oh and lastly, if you youtube angry apisto or something along these lines there is a video of a male getting really riled up (I think the camera man was teasing it with a mirror or something). I actually noticed my larger apisto doing this to the side of the tank the other day. Not as pronounced but it was certainly not happy about seeing it's reflection.

 

[Hmoobthor]

pretty hard to tell as both don't even have what you bought as "sunburst/orange flash" color at all! There color are so dull and poorly breed.

Time will tell to determine the sex.

 

[nandemonai]

pretty hard to tell as both don't even have what you bought as "sunburst/orange flash" color at all! There color are so dull and poorly breed.

Time will tell to determine the sex.

I was under the impression the colouring didn't come in proper till they aged more. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't great specimens though, considering they're so hard to get here in South Australia.

I've actually ordered 3 more juvenile double reds from a reputable interstate breeder so I'm hoping I can get a good pair out of those.

 

[apistodave]

Fems

2 females and not sunburst or whatever just 2 nice female cacatoodies

 

[Big G]

I'd agree with Dave... two females, but as Mike says, without clearer pics, its hard to be certain?

I would say that the colouration is fine if they are females? Find a nicely coloured Male to breed them with, and you could have some real beauts!

Maybe try getting some clearer pics?

Regards
G!