1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Male or Females?

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by nandemonai, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. nandemonai

    nandemonai New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi All,

    I'm new to the forum so hello :)

    I got these two Apistos about a 2 weeks ago now. They're very young and it was very hard to sex them in the shop but the LFS guy did his best.

    I was told they're Apistogramma Cacatouides (Sunburst / Orange Flash) which I believe is accurate.

    I originally thought I had 1 male and 1 female (one was darker and larger) however I'm starting to think I have two females.

    What do you think?

    Female:

    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0244.jpg

    Male?:

    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0246.jpg
    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0249.jpg
    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0279.jpg
    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0281.jpg

    Together:

    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0276.jpg
    http://rendai.homeunix.net/nandemonai/wp-content/gallery/aquaria/img_0278.jpg

    * Apologies if this is a double post, it didn't seem to work first time.
  2. aquaticclarity

    aquaticclarity Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The links to your pictures don't work! Either try loading the pictures again or use a different service like www.photobucket.com
  3. nandemonai

    nandemonai New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
  4. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,811
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry to say, but your photos are not good enough for an accurate ID. Personally, the extensive black color on the ventral fins of your 'male' would worry me. This is more typically seen on females. Truthfully, the 'male' looks very much like some older female A. cacatuoides that I've had. Older females often develop slightly more masculine features like serrated dorsal fin (very slight) and squared-off caudal fin with very short tips. BTW, your 'female' doesn't seem to show much black on the ventral fins. It might be a young male. I honestly can't say without better photos and more info, especially the size of the fish.
  5. nandemonai

    nandemonai New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thanks for trying Mike, the photos are from a phone hence the quality. I had similar thoughts actually regarding them maybe being an older female and young male (ie reverse of what I originally thought they were). This would make sense in that the 'female' actually has a more male looking crest.

    At what age should males develop clear male traits? I don't actually know how old they are but they are very small still, the larger being around 3cm, smaller 2cm. I know they're still very young.

    I'm so confused, I guess time will tell. I will note that the larger one sure is 'acting' like a male in that it does harass the smaller one a little. Nothing too violent but the occasional shuv here and there. Do females of the species act this way too?

    Oh and lastly, if you youtube angry apisto or something along these lines there is a video of a male getting really riled up (I think the camera man was teasing it with a mirror or something). I actually noticed my larger apisto doing this to the side of the tank the other day. Not as pronounced but it was certainly not happy about seeing it's reflection.
  6. Hmoobthor

    Hmoobthor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    pretty hard to tell as both don't even have what you bought as "sunburst/orange flash" color at all! There color are so dull and poorly breed.

    Time will tell to determine the sex.
  7. nandemonai

    nandemonai New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I was under the impression the colouring didn't come in proper till they aged more. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't great specimens though, considering they're so hard to get here in South Australia.

    I've actually ordered 3 more juvenile double reds from a reputable interstate breeder so I'm hoping I can get a good pair out of those.
  8. apistodave

    apistodave Member Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Fems

    2 females and not sunburst or whatever just 2 nice female cacatoodies
  9. Big G

    Big G New Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'd agree with Dave... two females, but as Mike says, without clearer pics, its hard to be certain?

    I would say that the colouration is fine if they are females? Find a nicely coloured Male to breed them with, and you could have some real beauts!

    Maybe try getting some clearer pics?

    Regards
    G!