Yet another cycling question.. but a bit different

[anewbie]

Little sneak peak:
Hemigrammus Coeruleus, all the time at the front quite schooling, chunky and beautiful (the camera doesnt do the silver with red stripe and white tips on the fins justice) When its feeding time they attack like piranhas
View attachment 14244
View attachment 14243

Nannostomus are grouping together all the time, probably scared of the new big fishes. But all in all doing fine:
View attachment 14246

And two huge Laetacara Thayeri. One is about 10cm and the other around 8. But they are still quite scared and hard to photograph. When i sit still they sometimes come to the front and show nice fluorscent blue in the phase. The male has a yellow hue and the female a slight pink hue on the belly. I will try to get a good photo but that might take some time. At least you can see the white edge on their fins hereView attachment 14247View attachment 14248

Just be aware that the Laetacara Thayeri are all mouth and will eat anything that will fit in those mouth including most pencil fishes and smaller streamline tetra.

 

[MacZ]

Nannostomus are grouping together all the time, probably scared of the new big fishes

Abso0lutely normal in the beginning. Later they also did this during waterchanges. Once the surface structures from plants and twigs are established they become territorial, usually keeping a distance of 10-20cm. Those territories will be defended viciously. Females take larger territories than males, and are basically only aggressive towards other females. Generally males will always harass females ready to spawn or not, either chasing them away or pushing them to spawn.
Right now I have 4 males one female left (originally 13, but they are going down one by one from old age. They're all wild caught, which is standard for N. eques.) and they are comfortable in my 80cm tank.

 

[Stijn1191]

Thanks for the info anewbie, but so far the Laetacara are completely ignoring the Nannostomus (and the tetra's which are bigger than your regular Cardinal). So, so far so good .

Hmm, I was actually thinking of getting some more N. Eques, because I thought they do better in bigger groups. Around 12-15 in total. with a surface area of 90x60. But if they really get that territorial.. hmm....

 

[MacZ]

Hmm, I was actually thinking of getting some more N. Eques, because I thought they do better in bigger groups. Around 12-15 in total. with a surface area of 90x60. But if they really get that territorial.. hmm....

That should be ok. I have 80x35. You've seen my tank, you've seen the kind of structure they need. That should work out.

 

[Mike Wise]

Are we talking about inches or centemeters??

 

[MacZ]

Centimeters.

 

[Mike Wise]

Hmm. Seems like an over-crowded tank to me; tetras, pencils and 2 of the larger species of Laetacara. I fondly remember watching a pair in the Rio Itaya guarding their fry from the few other fish in their part of the stream. Both sexes were easily 5"/12.5cm TL. Who.ever claimed they only grew to 4"/10cm needs to see them in the wild.

 

[anewbie]

I have 6 Laetacara Thayeri in my 600 gallon aquarium with a group of 7 Mesonauta mirificus; i've not seen any aggression between the species and both are wc and able to display when they want to be left alone (one of the mesonauta is very moody and frequently goes dark and raises his fins); however I would not describe the l. Thayeri shy - i would describe them as boisterous - though the female (or the one i presume is a female) is a bit more standoffish. Of the 3 species of Laetacara i own the dorsigera, which were tank raised) are the most shy. The araguaiae (which are wc) are sort of in the middle. Figures the wc fishes would be less shy than the tank-raised ones The dorsigera are in a 500 gallon aquarium and the araguaie in a 180 so all have lots of room to spread out. The 180 is a bit over populated with keyholes and a lot of this and that (non-cichild). The 500 is the least populated of the 3 aquariums with a set of geo and wc blue rams (which get along great with the dorsigera - much better than i had hoped). Really confused about these wc rams as the lineta in the other 180 with discus almost school with them. I mean they can't possibly school but will frequently swim with them.
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Anyway i diverged the L. Thayeri are among my most boisterous fishes. One difference between them and the Mesonauta (which i call festum for some reason) is that they don't seem to mind strangers; when the Mesonauta see strangers in the room they will group up together raise their fins and retreat as far as possible in the aquarium. The Thayeri seem to care less.

 

[MacZ]

The tank above has some unfortunate dimensions, true. I don't see it overstocked in terms of bioload, but I indeed second the notion it might be too small for the cichlids. The other fish are absolutely fine in this in my opinion.

 

[Mike Wise]

There is a definite difference in behavior between roughly 60 gallon tank and 'swimming pool' 600 gallon tank.

 

[Stijn1191]

I appreciate the feedback and understand the big difference between a huge swimming pool of 600 gallons and 60 gallons. But we got to make do with the space we have.

As expected the Laetacara maily keep to the bottom (and then the back of the tank) and when the male sees the female he gives her a short chase. But with the many eye-sight breakers these chases are of very short timespans.
The tetra's keep to the middle and mainly the front of the tank and the Nannostamus the top.

As in overcrowded look and feel.. I don't really get that here to be honest.
I AM happy though that I didn't also get the Apisto's. Then yes, it would be overcrowded.

 

[Mike Wise]

I appreciate the feedback and understand the big difference between a huge swimming pool of 600 gallons and 60 gallons. But we got to make do with the space we have.

You're right of course. But ethically (for me personally) it means that we should 'make do' with only the number/size of fish that can be maintained stress free in the tank size we have.

 

[Stijn1191]

Totally agree with that Mike! But as it is, I don't feel like its a "goldfish in a fishbowl" situation (at all). But yeah, the more space they would have the better.

 

[Stijn1191]

Sad news. 2 nannostomus & and one tetra so far jumped out of the aquarium. The water is about 5cm under the rim.. I guess I need to lower it more. How much lower would you guys recommend?

 

[Stijn1191]

Hmm an even better option might be something like this (with a gap of 10cm at the end of the tank for the submersed plants and wood)

 

[MacZ]

How much lower would you guys recommend?

10cm under the rim and get plants to grow around it. They will be noticed as cover and the fish are less likely to jump in that direction.

 

[Mike Wise]

I find floating plants that cover the entire surface lessens this problem. Also locating a tank at a higher level (less shadows over the top) helps.

 

[Stijn1191]

I'm working on the floating plants the last two weeks they doubled in surface area. Ignore the floating dried ones, still waiting for them to sink.

For now I'll go for a combination of lower water level and lots of floating plants (the water level is actually lower than it seems, the angle makes it look like its still high)