Water Conditions / Substrate Choices for Apistos?

[Ricochet]

I'm in the process of getting a new 90g ready for an Apisto tank. I vaguely remember that Apistos like soft water and low pH. Could someone refresh me on the GH/KH and pH ranges that would be suitable for keeping and breeding Apistos?

Related to that is the type of substrate I'll be choosing...In particular I want a non-CO2 but well planted tank. I like the look of sand (plus sand sold for pool filters are very cheap), but I guess it isn't ideal for a planted tank. I've heard that Onyx Sand is (expensive but) good for plants, but also has buffering properties, which is good for tanks in general...but will also raise the pH and KH (bad for Apistos, right?).

Flourite seems to be a good substrate, except that I don't want something that is very light and will cloud my water every type I re-plant or aquascape. It's also about as expensive as Onyx sand - it would probably cost me around $150 for enough for a 4-inch layer in my 90g tank.

Anyone use Onyx sand? I've heard using a very bottom layer of peat would lower the pH...

Any thoughts?

 

[farm41]

I have onyx sand in 2 tanks right now and 5 more bags on the floor that I will be taking back to the lfs this weekend. Onyx sand is a great substrate for plants, but as you have heard it raises the hardness, I can verify that, my Kh went up by 2 and Gh up by 3 degrees. Now that I am keeping softwater fish this is the wrong substrate for me to use, I want to go the other way. I also have a tank with flourite, it's just as good but doesn't change the hardness, flourite isn't light at all, that would be laterite. I haven't had any trouble with flourite clouding the water either, it just needs to be rinsed before you put in the tank, and then fill your tank slowly, I use a python to fill my new tanks and just crack the valve open to fill slow.

I am replacing my 55g this weekend with a 75g(same foot print as a 90g) and I will use 5 bags of flourite and 60 pounds of natural gravel. That should give me a depth of 3" in the front and 4" in the back.

I have never experienced either substrate raising the Ph.

 

[Eva32181]

Different apistos have different pH/hardness tolerance levels. My tanks are all about 6.8, and so far I have had cacatuoides, borelliis, and rams spawn and get to at least the wiggler stage.

As for substrate - this is one area of big debates. My 55 has a layer of peat covered by flourite. The peat works its way to the surface every time I rearrange plants, but I think it looks pretty when its all muddy like that so I don't worry about it. You could do a peat, flourite, pool sand sandwich (with flourite in the middle) if you want - I don't think you would have problems with compacting if sand was only the top layer. I dunno. Personally I am a big fan of peat - it seems to have magical capabilities turning my hard tapwater into apisto water.

Good luck!

 

[aspen]

hi ricochet, i would like to add my 2 cents worth. if you have never had a planted tank, a 90 gal is not a good place for you to start. i have had a good number of tries before i got the conditions right for a successful tank, and you would be an incredibly quick study, if you got it right the first time. that means that you will likely tear that tank down in frustration with an algae-fied mess a couple of times, before you get it right.

i don't want to deter you, just start smaller, and this will allow you to make a few mistakes along the way, without a major lesson in frustration. i love planted tanks, but i am most proud of my 20 gal. imo, this is a great size to start with. not too small, lots of good lighting choices (probably the MOST important choice that you will make) and plenty large enough to appreciate and keep a pair of apistos in a community environment.

good luck, rick

btw, i like pure silica sand, well rinsed, it is inert, and managing nutrients is the best way to control algae in a new tank. test all substrates with acid, if it bubbles, it is not suitable, and will release carbonates, to raise kh.

 

[Ricochet]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I hope that this forum grows quickly, and I'll do my part by posting it in the other forums that I'm a member of.

Farm41,

I'm assuming that you'll be mixing the flourite and natural gravel? If you're keeping it as separate layers, how do you prevent them from the mixing caused byreplanting/aquascaping?

What hardness/ph would be ideal for all but the most extreme apistos?

Eva32181,

By peat, are you referring to ground peat or peat moss, or are they the same? Doesn't it rot if you place it as the bottom layer? Also, everytime you do a water change, doesn't the hardness go up, and then gradually decrease again?

Aspen,

I currently have a regular gravel 10g tank with watersprite, mondo grass, java moss, and anacharis (although my Malaysian Trumpet Snails are eating it). You're right in that I haven't had a truly planted tank with decent substrates and proper lighting, but I'm pretty patient and don't mind learning from my mistakes. I also have some experience with algae, although the Compact Flourescent lighting I'm getting will likely take that to an altogether different level.
Is silica sand your only substrate? What size is your tank, what lighting are you using, and can you elaborate on your dosing methods and schedule?
Where are some places that I can start looking for pure silica sand? So far my possibilities are Home Depot (but I've heard that the composition of their sand is regional and can vary greatly), pool-filter sand from a supply store, and pet shops (but I don't want to pay $$$ for sand)...

 

[farm41]

Yes, I just dump it all in the tank and mix it up. I don't know how some people can layer it. I am ripping up and replanting a couple of times or more a month, and it gets all mixed up. I like the look of flourite and the natural rock that I get at my lfs.

 

[aspen]

richochet, i presently don't have a planted tank running, but the last one i had going was my 20 gal.

i used pure white silica sand, and the plants will grow very well, without laterite or other fancy substrates, as long as you understand the needs of the plants, the signs of deficiencies, and have the restraint to forgo using too much fert till the plants are actually being inhibited by a lack of nutrients.

i am a test kit kind of guy, and i strongly believe in the use of high light and co2 addition. these are the 2 most common elements in short supply in a planted tank light and a readilyavailable carbon source. when not using co2, too much light will almost surely create a great condition to grow algae in.

the trick is to get things planted, and let things grow in slowly for a little while, limiting the extra nutrients in the tank by getting the plants growing really well, and having a low fish load at the start, say algae eaters only. once you are past the initial 'high risk algae stage', then you can add a few more fish, but not too many at a time.

running a successful planted tank is a balancing act, between getting good growth from your plants, and adding too many extra nutrients. that is why i advocate an inert substrate: it makes it very easy to limit nutrients when you want to.

if you want to discuss this further, let's move to the planted tank section.

rick

 

[Neil]

Excellent info, guys (gals inclusive in the term)!
I'll add my 2 cents on perms. Depending upon whether you are interested in breeding or not and which specific species, both the pH and hardness can vary substantially. However, as a general rule for husbandry, you should shot for about 6.5pH and 3-4 degree GH and KH. All apistos will live comfortably in these conditions and they are not too extreme for the addition of numerous other species or plants. When you decide what specific species you will be adding and that you want them to spawn, we can work on what perms are needed more specifically.
Neil

 

[Eva32181]

That's the magic of peat. I got it at Winn Dixie, of all places. I only change 20% of my water at a time, and even though my tap water is hard the peat un-buffers it really well.

I don't know how it works. I don't even know what kind of peat it is. All I know is I read the krib postings about peat until I was nearly blind from staring at the monitor, then - wa-la! I had Amazon water and lots of spawnings. (Yes I pour the tap water straight into the tank, with Prime to remove chlorine.) (And yes, it started out as layers, but now its less of a sandwich and more of a substrate salad, if you will.)