(Toronto area) Hi All .... The wife and I have just.......

[J&JsTA]

... finished setting up a 65g tank and we are at the start of our fishless cycle. We have 1 10g & 1 20g community fish tanks & we wanted to go cichlid this time with some keyholes and Apistogramma for the 65g.

We wanted 2-3 clown loaches and some tetras to go along with the keyholes & apistos...... any suggestions for qty and mix of the cichlids & tetras would be an asset as it will be our first attempt at a cichlid tank and we certainly don't want any disasters :cry:

Also I am at the east end of Toronto (Whitby exactly) and have not seen a wide variety of apistos anywhere(or any?)... I have seen some keyholes... any help on decent suppliers/breaders would be a bonus. Tank is below (perhaps some more rock will be needed)

 

[aspen]

hi- nice tank. i am in the west end of toronto, and if you visit the big al's at yonge and steeles, you will be sure to find some apistos from time to time. (or, you could just phone, ask for the fishroom and see what they have in stock.)

i have keyholes, but have not yet put them in with my apistos, so am not sure how well they would get along. mine are wilds, but seem fairly unagressive. they are not sexually dimorphic till they are full size, so you would need to buy a few to get a pair. i purchased 4. this might be the first part of your strategy, then later add a trio of apistos.

if that were my tank, i would have a couple of small plecos, like rubber or dwarf bushy-nose, and a few mollies for the hair algae. black lyre-tail mollies seem to work best, ime. with the amount of plants you have in there, you could probably add them right away, except for the ammonia you have in there now. in a couple of weeks a school of tetras (20 neons, cardinals or glowlights?) can be added when you are sure that the tank has finished cycling, then in another couple of weeks, add the first cichlids.

i have some beckford's pencilfish, glowlights and silver hatchets in with my keyholes, and there haven't been any deaths in months, or even much agression to speak of. if you are thinking of hatchetfish, do your research. marbled like cooler water. match all fish to the right water parm's. some apistos like cooler water (borellii) but most prefer warmer water. keyholes seem to like a flowerpot on it's side for a 'nest' and apisto's like closed caves. provide a nest for every female. java fern can be grown on almost anything, to hide otherwise unsightly objects.

rick

 

[J&JsTA]

Thx Rick, appreciate the advice...I'm going to drop in at BA's on Kennedy rd in Scarboro tonight on the way home and see if their stock has been updated at least I know I can pretty much find the keyholes whenever I need to ... I just may have to do some GTA wondering to find what else I want 8)

Joe

 

[mikewang]

also BA missisauga has apistos. i find they always stock apistos, but may be sold out.

 

[Discus Man]

also BA missisauga has apistos. i find they always stock apistos, but may be sold out.

I have not been impressed with their stock or prices... so far I have had the best luck at BA in Brampton.
Wild caught alenquer for 10 bucks each. Not to shabby.
BA in Mississauga tends to want $30 bucks a pair for triple red domestic agazzissi...

 

[fideltagamma]

Hi,

sorry to interrupt, but what is a keyhole?

Daniel

 

[mikewang]

whats the advantage of buying wilds?

 

[J&JsTA]

Hi,

sorry to interrupt, but what is a keyhole?

Daniel

Non-agressive small Acara cichlid


I stopped at BA's, PJs in Pickering and three other stores on the way home and only found some Bolivian & German Rams and they had them tagged as Apitos??? .... no keyholes or any other apistos ... this maybe a major search effort...

 

[J&JsTA]

Dropped over to watch the shark feeding at BA's in Whitby and they have Keyholes along with Apisto cacatouides, Apisto hongsloi, and Apisto linkei ...... any thoughts on one or combination of these 3 for compatiblity with the Keyholes?

Joe

 

[Discus Man]

any thoughts on one or combination of these 3 for compatiblity with the Keyholes?

Joe, I am not a fan of keeping males of different species of apisto together as I have had numerous problems. I recommend Keyholes and a trio of cacatoides. I know 65g seems huge, but apistos breed and I am surpirsed at how much room they will use as a territory.
The Keyholes need a spot, and breeding cacs tend to 'demand' at least a square foot of the tank...

whats the advantage of buying wilds?

Mike, no advantage per say, but domestics don't tend to have shipping costs etc. so I wonder what I am paying $10 bucks more for. Apistos that may be inbred, or inferior quality, etc.
Same price I could understand, or IME wilds can sometimes be more expensive but I can't see why BA in mississauga would charge that much more for domestics.

Didn't make sense except for mark up, pure mark up...

 

[aspen]

>>'whats the advantage of buying wilds?'

the advantage is, that you are sure to buy fish that are not so in-bred that breeding will not be a problem. the disadvantage is, that they will have some different parasites which will need to be treated for. that is almost for sure, imo.

>>'I recommend Keyholes and a trio of cacatoides.'

me too, a good choice. 4 females would not be too many.

>>'Same price I could understand, or IME wilds can sometimes be more expensive but I can't see why BA in mississauga would charge that much more for domestics. '

stores will price their fish relative to how much they cost them, dead fish raise the price for the lot. wild apistos do not ship well, hence larger losses before they are sold. domestics are actually bred, not simply collected, hence the added cost, but will ship better. tank bred colours may be what you are looking for, wilds may be more desirable for some people, esp if they have pairs going they want to cross out to wild fish. my lfs won't buy apistos, due to the large losses he has incurred in the past. 25 bucks canadian is max for a very nice cac pair imo.

rick

 

[J&JsTA]

>>'I recommend Keyholes and a trio of cacatoides.'

me too, a good choice. 4 females would not be too many.

rick

8O so that would be 1 m & 2 F cacatuoides to follow the rule of thumb and does that same rule apply for the keyholes as you suggested 4 keyholes in your first post..... sorry guys just don't want any undo losses here

Edit: sorry I get it now .. 4 keyholes . ...hoping you get 2 pair = 4 females total.... DOH!!!!

 

[aspen]

>>'4 females would not be too many.'

one male cacatuoides with 4 female cac's would be fine. 2 males would be too many males, imo.

as for the keyholes, i believe they are 6 bucks each or so at a small size. i would buy 4 in the hopes of getting a pair. i'm not sure what would happen if 2 pairs formed, maybe things would be fine, maybe not.

rick

 

[J&JsTA]

>>'4 females would not be too many.'

one male cacatuoides with 4 female cac's would be fine. 2 males would be too many males, imo.

as for the keyholes, i believe they are 6 bucks each or so at a small size. i would buy 4 in the hopes of getting a pair. i'm not sure what would happen if 2 pairs formed, maybe things would be fine, maybe not.

rick

Thx Rick ... I always have a 10g setup if I run into problems as a temp solution or my daughter could take a pair in her 20g ... we should be good to go ... 2 loaches and perhaps some cardinals and a couple of mollies from my daughters tank and then the keyholes & cacatuoides , and then a rest to let everyone settle in I'll be sure to share my experiences ....

Thx folks

 

[Neil]

J&JsTA,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Just keep you eyes on thing. Keyholes are very mellow cichlids, but they are cichlids. Cacatuoides are not quite as mellow, but smaller. There should be no problems, if both have enough space. The more you put into a tank, the more likely it will be that problems arise. A 65g. is a pretty large tank, but has its limits with the amount of territory for numerous breeding spots. Each female, regardless of species, will try and establish a section of the tank when they want to spawn. If territories overlap, there may be problem. Unfortunately, territories are often not perfectly clear and aggression depends just as much on individuals personalities just as much as on species characteristics. It is a hit of miss deal. Keep your eyes open when mixing.

Neil

 

[J&JsTA]

Well, we picked up 5 Keyholes tonight at BA's(fairly young so no Sex call :cry and while we were there talking to a gentlemen about different tankmates he shows us these Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Moliwe" (krib family)and the wife an I both just stepped back and went "yeah" lovely... but at $59 a pair we will have to think about it and do some research .. definitely don't want to be making mistakes at that price and they a difficult to breed but beautiful fish.. will be tuff to say no ....

.......anyone have any experience or thoughts to share on Pelvicachromis taeniatus "Moliwe"