Back in the hobby, pairings with Apistogramma Cacatuoidus

[Dibs84]

Hello all,

I've had lots of tanks when I was younger, life happened and I just stopped with the hobby at some point.
I still watch a lot of content on YT about aquascaping, long story short, my wife decided to get me a tank so I can enjoy and explore the hobby once again.

I've always loved the cacatuoides, but never really had them, so I figured this was the perfect time to set something up.
Tank is 80x36x55cm, will run without CO2 but heavily planted and wood/rocks present.

I was thinking the following for fish;
- 1x male / 2x female cacatuoides
- 10-15x ditherfish, somekind of tetra? Personally I adore diamond tetras (Moenkhausia pittieri) but perhaps too big?
- 5-7 corydoras
- 2 ottos
- 1 pleco, which tend to stay on the smaller size.

Would anyone have some recommendations for the different fish? I'm not quite sure which pair nicely with the cacatuoides, any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

​

 

[MacZ]

Scratch the bigger catfish, rather go with 6+ Otocinclus but only add them after 6 months so the aufwuchs is sustainable.

In terms of tetras, indeed M. pittieri are too big, go with something the size of Paracheirodon axelrodi. I personally like to recommend Nannostomus.

Now for the Apistogramma:
If you want a community tank, and it sounds like it, go with a single male.
Two females in that tanksize are a ticking time bomb. They tend to be wasps fitting their colours when brooding.
Reiterating the mantra of Mike Wise: A community tank is not a breeding tank.

And about decoration etc. I advise to use fine sand and leaf litter, also avoid any type of rock that might release hardening agents raising KH and GH or that pose a risk of injury like dragon stone. I'd forgoe on rocks beside some rounded pebbles.

 

[Dibs84]

Scratch the bigger catfish, rather go with 6+ Otocinclus but only add them after 6 months so the aufwuchs is sustainable.

Thank you kindly for the response. Do you mean the pleco or the corydoras as well? Oto's were for sure on the list. I really like a pleco but if it is better for the fish I will let that one slide for sure.

I've read quite a bit about just keeping a male Cacatuoides and just ignoring females. I assume you guys all have way more experience with that, the male won't go lonely or colours not showing?

The Axelrodi I've had in I think all my tanks haha, so I am avoiding those at all costs. The Nannostomus look great! thanks for suggesting them. Looks to be a nice addition to the apisto colours. Would a group of 15 or so be doable?

On the topic of hardscape I am using fine sand as cover with some added leafs, will use 2 or 3 key stones but nothing crazy, ill keep an eye on the KH and GH numbers for sure.

 

[Mike Wise]

In a community tank of your size, where apistos are not able to breed, a single male apisto is best. No, a single male will not be lonely. As for color I imagine that any cacatuoides you will get is a domestic color strain where the color is 'set' and will not change with or without females. My experience with male only apistos in a community tank is that they tend to ignore other fish species, except other cichlids that wander into their territory. If you like Diamond Tetras, then try them. Plecos can disturb apistos, particularly at night when plecos are more active and can blunder into a cave where the apisto is sleeping. I've never had the desire to keep apistos and plecos (except ottos) together. Good luck with your community tank.

 

[MacZ]

Thank you kindly for the response. Do you mean the pleco or the corydoras as well? Oto's were for sure on the list. I really like a pleco but if it is better for the fish I will let that one slide for sure.

Yes, scratch all catfish besides Otocinclus. I have been keeping single males of different species and genera in biotope communities for a while now and they should have the bottom for themselves.

I would also not keep any Plecos in less than 100cm tsnk length or 250liters volume. The smaller species tend to be carnivorous or wood eaters, smaller tanks won't do well with the bioload.

I assume you guys all have way more experience with that, the male won't go lonely or colours not showing?

No, they won't be lonely and as Mike says the colour will be fixed anyway.

The Axelrodi I've had in I think all my tanks haha, so I am avoiding those at all costs. The Nannostomus look great! thanks for suggesting them. Looks to be a nice addition to the apisto colours. Would a group of 15 or so be doable?

I only meant comparable in size to P. axelrodi, not the species itself. Yes, 10-15 easily. Please be aware there is about a dozen of species and dome are rare and pricey. i'd go with A. beckfordi, as some species are small enough to fit the mouth of an A. cacatuoides.

On the topic of hardscape I am using fine sand as cover with some added leafs, will use 2 or 3 key stones but nothing crazy, ill keep an eye on the KH and GH numbers for sure.

Just make sure you avoid limestone like holey rocks and Seiryu.

 

[Dibs84]

Yes, scratch all catfish besides Otocinclus. I have been keeping single males of different species and genera in biotope communities for a while now and they should have the bottom for themselves.

Damn, almost sounds like the apisto are just making things a lot harder haha. I really wanted to keep 1 male and some corydoras atleast but seems thats out of the picture as well?

My local fish store has some amazing Green Rasbora (Microdevario Kubotai) and A. beckfordi currently in stock. As well as super colorful group of Orange Venezuela cory.

I'm going tomorrow to check them out, I don't mind picking up 15-20 beckfordi if the tank can hold that group and its better for the fish to be in somewhat of a larger group.
Will stick to 1 male apisto and no pleco's for sure then.

Curious to see what hardscape is available when I go to the shop tomorrow, will make sure to get as much advice as possible concerning the stones and KH / GH influence.

Thanks

 

[Dibs84]

I feel like I am straying to far into a "community" tank, and I really wanted the apistos to be the centerpoint.

Ignoring the corydoras, as I feel they won't mix well, is there some kind of Biotope I can make for apistogramma cacatuoides in a 80cm tank? If so, what fish could I add with the apistos, just tetra like ditherfish? No other bottom dwellers besides oto's?

Really want to do right by the apistos if I can

 

[MacZ]

Corydoras indeed don't mix well with Apistogramma and the smaller the tank the less.

If so, what fish could I add with the apistos, just tetra like ditherfish? No other bottom dwellers besides oto's?

Correct. I myself keep a single Dicrossus filamentosus with some Nannostomus eques at the moment. It's a relaxed combination.

Otocinclus are not bottomdwellers btw, they are dwelling on any surface especially big leaved plants and twigs and branches.

 

[Mike Wise]

Corydoras indeed don't mix well with Apistogramma and the smaller the tank the less.

This is primarily true only for breeding apistos. Right now I have a large, older A. erythrura in a community tank that includes 4 corys. I even had 2 A. wolli and 6 corys in the same tank (40 gallon breeder - 90x40x40cm) with no aggression toward them. IMHO a single male of most apisto species will not bother corys in your smaller tank. My only problem is that the tank may be too small for more than 2 or 3 corys. Since corys are a schooling fish they need more than a couple to be comfortable.

 

[Dibs84]

This is primarily true only for breeding apistos. Right now I have a large, older A. erythrura in a community tank that includes 4 corys. I even had 2 A. wolli and 6 corys in the same tank (40 gallon breeder - 90x40x40cm) with no aggression toward them. IMHO a single male of most apisto species will not bother corys in your smaller tank. My only problem is that the tank may be too small for more than 2 or 3 corys. Since corys are a schooling fish they need more than a couple to be comfortable.

That's actually great to hear, cause the guy from my local fish shop just said the exact same thing.
Cory can go when you don't care about breeding and just keep a single male, just wasn't sure my 80cm was big enough for a nice shoal of them.
He advised the same thing in keeping 1 male apisto and then adding a nice group of shoal fish, he showed me a great group of black neon tetras, never saw them before but really loved how they looked.

I reserved a really nice looking male sunburst cacatuoides but fairly young still, and will just go for a nice big group of the black tetras and oto's once the tank is a bit more mature.

Picked out a hardscape today, and building the tank this week, will let it go for a few weeks and see how the water quality holds up with the rocks and wood/branches.

Thanks again, had a blast today, reminded me I should have never left the hobby haha

 

[MacZ]

This is primarily true only for breeding apistos. Right now I have a large, older A. erythrura in a community tank that includes 4 corys. I even had 2 A. wolli and 6 corys in the same tank (40 gallon breeder - 90x40x40cm) with no aggression toward them. IMHO a single male of most apisto species will not bother corys in your smaller tank.

On the other hand my A. ortegai did not go well with C. habrosus, nor did A. hongsloi.

My only problem is that the tank may be too small for more than 2 or 3 corys. Since corys are a schooling fish they need more than a couple to be comfortable.

Agree on that.

 

[anewbie]

My solo a. agassiz is aggressive towards anything that enter his territory (solo male); in a 180. His territory is very small under a piece of driftwood and oddly enough most of the fishes include the cory have learned to avoid it but on occasion if a cory or keyhole does come within a few inches (4?) he will er assert himself. He will be approx 3 years old in nov. My solo male a. ortega is a little aggressive but not too bad though I might have to move him again - he is in a 29 with some c. eques. I might have to move him to the 600 with clown loaches; even if he is still aggressive i doubt the loaches would notice as they are rather not tiny.
-
Going back to the a. agassiz he was put in the 180 without a female so it was not a 'carry over' situation - er he was not in a breeding setup prior to becoming solo. To be honest most of the solo males i've had have not been totally smooth going - though the more recent species have been much more passive.