Submitted for your ID Frustration

[aquaticclarity]

No, this isn't an April Fool's Day Joke
-young adult to adult size (1 1/2"-2 1/2")
-collected at Mozambique Lake Puerto Lopez, Columbia
-imported 1 week before pictures were taken

 

[regani]

The second last picture allows clear identification a A. sp heata

 

[Culprit]

That 2nd pic looks like a true viejita

 

[DBlauj]

Jeff are these the same batch that Ted has? This is the male I just picked up from him.

 

[de nol]

it looks a lot like a.hoignei to me but seeing it twice it looks much slender..

 

[Rolo]

Hi,

the fish from BBlauj I would certainly call A. viejita. (Form 1 aka Rotsaum/Red-Seam)

I'm not that sure with the pictures of Jeff's fishes. Could be the same, could also be A. macmasteri.)

regards,
Rolo

 

[aquaticclarity]

My fish and BBlauj's were all imported together from the same collection.

 

[gerald]

How close is that location to viejita's known range?
"collected at Mozambique Lake Puerto Lopez, Columbia"

 

[aquaticclarity]

How close is that location to viejita's known range?
"collected at Mozambique Lake Puerto Lopez, Columbia"

That is the type locality for type I viejita

 

[Rolo]

My fish and BBlauj's were all imported together from the same collection.

Same import / catch expedition or really same location?

Same import / expedition wouldn't exclude, that DBlauj's fish is a by-catch in a batch of Macs or the whole import is a mixture of both.

regards,
Rolo

 

[gerald]

If it came from the type locality, then is there any reason to think that it's NOT from the same population as the "viejita" type specimen? (Some might still question whether viejita and macmasteri are really valid and distinct species).

quote="aquaticclarity, post: 85654, member: 1649"] That is the type locality for type I viejita[/quote]

Looks like we may now have photos of "real viejita" we can post on our forum, thanks to Jeff!

 

[JasonC]

If we have found true Viejita, isn't it all for naught if we can't convince the farms to stop calling their Mac strains Viejita, Viejita Gold, Viejita Red Neck, etc?

 

[Rolo]

This is mine, I had several years ago. It's obviously the same as DBLauj's fish, but I can see differences to Jeff's fishes. ...could depend on pictures, mood, polychromatism or whatever ... or they are really from different locations.

regards,
Rolo

 

[gerald]

If we have found true Viejita, isn't it all for naught if we can't convince the farms to stop calling their Mac strains Viejita, Viejita Gold, Viejita Red Neck, etc?

Commercial producers will do whatever is best for sales, probably including interbreeding true viejita with domestic mac strains to create new varieties. It would be nice if breeders and dealers used correct names, but many really don't care, and since the fish are destined for aquariums (and often not pure species anyway) the correct ID is not as important as it would be if the fish were being grown for wild re-stocking. How often do you see "kribensis" sold in stores under their correct name?

I'll be curious to see whether any of these viejita males develop caudal extensions as they age. That's purportedly one of the differences between mac and viejita, but I've wondered whether some "alpha-male" viejita might grow extensions too if we keep them alive long enough.

 

[Mike Wise]

Jeff's fish could be A. viejita or A. sp. Schwarzkehl. I can't say for sure from these photos. Are the tips of the dorsal spines red? I'd like to see the chin on a female.

How often do you see "kribensis" sold in stores under their correct name?

If the rumors are correct, about Dr. Lamboj re-erecting Pv. kribensis for some the Cameroonian forms of Pv. taeniatus, it will get much, much worse!

 

[JasonC]

If the rumors are correct, about Dr. Lamboj re-erecting Pv. kribensis for some the Cameroonian forms of Pv. taeniatus, it will get much, much worse!

I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Lamboj while he was here for a recent club event and he did say that there were some pretty significant changes coming for Pelvicachromis. The only detail that be mentioned though (understandably) is that a number of the localities of Pv. taeniatus will be combined, as they are, for all intents and purposes, the same. He did not mention resurrecting Pv. kribensis... but as I said he was understandably vague during the conversation.

 

[JasonC]

Commercial producers will do whatever is best for sales, probably including interbreeding true viejita with domestic mac strains to create new varieties. It would be nice if breeders and dealers used correct names, but many really don't care, and since the fish are destined for aquariums (and often not pure species anyway) the correct ID is not as important as it would be if the fish were being grown for wild re-stocking. How often do you see "kribensis" sold in stores under their correct name?

Unfortunately, its true. I bet we all wish that the vendors/farms out there would love our fish as much as we do.

This is actually something that I use to weed out potential vendors. If their attitude re: Viejita/Macmasteri is more of a "well this is what the farm sold them to me as, so that's what I am calling it" attitude, I politely pass on giving them my business.