Can I make blackwater using my tap water?

[Mazan]

Fluval sells peat cheap here but not sure you have access to it.

I don’t think so, but will look around some more.

 

[Stijn1191]

Don't use that one. I'm pretty sure those white balls are nutrients so its some sort of fertilized

 

[Mazan]

Don't use that one. I'm pretty sure those white balls are nutrients so its some sort of fertilized

Mmm maybe, the tap water I left in the cup has gone down to pH 5.5 overnight (it was about 6.8 before). But yes I was concerned seeing those white things although it says no added chemicals...

 

[Stijn1191]

Ah nevermind apparently its perlite, no nutrients but its there to keep it more airated.

 

[Mazan]

Ah nevermind apparently its perlite, no nutrients but its there to keep it more airated.

Thanks, that's good to know!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

apparently its perlite

It floats and gets everywhere.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mazan]

Hi all,

It floats and gets everywhere.

cheers Darrel

Ah right, I haven't used any yet, or looked for anything else, I was not at home all day yesterday and too busy before that, it may all be academic anyway as on Saturday afternoon the female pike cichlid failed to appear for food, and I have not seen her all day today either, I am worried that something is wrong...

 

[Mazan]

The female is ok, I was concerned as I had another female that died, the first thing was that she didn’t appear for food, then she appeared looking pale and bloated, but didn’t eat. A friend lost all his with the same symptoms, so I had a horrible feeling the same was happening again. I moved some pieces of wood and finally found her hiding in Vallisneria in a back corner. She looked fine, but I think the male is keeping her in hiding. They seemed ok together at first. This happened after I fed live mosquito larvae, don’t know if it was a coincidence or he wanted all the food for himself. Anyway I’ll have to keep a close eye on them…

 

[Mazan]

I should have clarified that these are fish that spend a lot of time hiding under logs and roots etc., in the big tank they each had their favourite place where they would spend most of the time. The male tended to be out and about much more than the female, but both would always appear for food. The never really interacted much with each other. In the smaller tank, at first the female reacted aggressively to the male, as she had been alone in the tank for quite a while before I managed to catch him, but then they seemed to settle down and would sometimes be out together. Now though I think the male must be chasing the female when she comes out, though I haven't actually seen any serious aggression from him. I just hope he won't stop her feeding or stress her too much.

So anyway, back to finding some peat preferably without perlite! Maybe I will have to get that Sera stuff, any idea how long a pack of that would last?

Meanwhile I did find some almond leaves, but not whole leaves, they were in pieces in bags like large tea bags, and quite expensive, but I put a couple of bags in the filter and the water is now pretty dark (which made it even harder to find the female).

 

[Mazan]

Things looking more positive now, the femaleisout and about eating mosquito larvae, the male sometimes chases her but she is not usually running away now, the male is also displaying to her - fins up, body in S shape etc....

It floats and gets everywhere.

What if I just pick that white stuff out first??

 

[MacZ]

So anyway, back to finding some peat preferably without perlite! Maybe I will have to get that Sera stuff, any idea how long a pack of that would last?

For your usual tank sizes... you will use a full pack each time, like every month.

What if I just pick that white stuff out first??

Good luck getting all of it out.

 

[Ben Rhau]

The Sera pellets are not a bad option, because you can put them in a bag. Likely expensive, though, for what it is.

With loose sphagnum, I'm not sure how people deal with it for large tanks. I made a small peat cannon (basically like a giant coffee pourover using an inverted gallon jug) but I only needed to make a few gallons at at time. Not a scientific measurement, but 6 cups of that yielded about 40 gallons before I needed to replace it.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

What if I just pick that white stuff out first??

You may be able to float it off? Just put the peat / perlite in a bucket of RO water and give it a good stir?

I know that @Mike Wise used to use <"undergravel filter plates"> and peat to prepare "blackwater" and @Microman put peat into a pillow-case to contain, I also did this when I still used peat.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mazan]

So I was worrying unnecessarily about the female she is fíne now.

For your usual tank sizes... you will use a full pack each time, like every month.

The tank is 240l but real volume is less due to branches and substrate. Anyway that would get expensive...

Ok so I put a small amount of that peat in a fine mesh bag (old tights) in the filter, and have another container apart with water into which I put more peat in a bigger bag. This should prevent the perlite getting everywhere. And as it says no chemicals I guess it will be OK?

The tank has clouded over a bit just now, not sure if that is the peat or just because I disturbed the filter...

The pH in the tank is currently 6.5, and in the cup of water with peat in is still 5.5.

 

[Mazan]

The Sera pellets are not a bad option, because you can put them in a bag. Likely expensive, though, for what it is.

With loose sphagnum, I'm not sure how people deal with it for large tanks. I made a small peat cannon (basically like a giant coffee pourover using an inverted gallon jug) but I only needed to make a few gallons at at time. Not a scientific measurement, but 6 cups of that yielded about 40 gallons before I needed to replace it.

Just posted at the. same time, the Sera pack costs $30. I might be tempted to get one to start with and will still look for sphagnum peat, with but will see what happens with this peat anyway..

 

[Mazan]

A quick update, I put some of the peat in old tights in a large tub of water about three days ago, the pH is now 6.5, same as the in the tank. It was about 6.8 to start with. I wasn't sure how much peat to add and I don't have any circulation through it. That peat is very messy producing a lot of fine particles and clouding the water. I had a very small amount of peat that a fish shop owner gave me a couple of years ago, put it in the filter in fine mesh bag, and that stuff does not cloud the water. But I only had a very small amount. And he has gone to the US, that shop is closed now sadly. I did ask him on messenger where he got it, he told me shop that is one of a chain here, I had already tried a different one of those shops so I am not that optimistic, but might try the one he used when I get time.

Also I had a bag of (Andean) alder cones that someone gave me a while back. I put a couple of handfuls in a saucepan and poured boiling water on them. Maybe that was too much at once? The water turned a very dark, almost reddish brown, and all the seeds came out of the cones. Not sure if I should put some, a little, or all of this stained water in the tank, or in the peat bucket that I am hoping to use for the next water change?

 

[Mike Wise]

I never add peat directly into a tank. I make blackwater in a separate tank and then use it for water changes. I have more control in this way. Yes, peat can make a mess, but I reduce this by putting a large amount into my 'peat pillows', placing it on top of a filter plate and weighting it down with large inert rocks at the corners. I then let the r/o water circulate through it like it would if it were an air-driven undergravel filter.

My pillows are made from nylon mesh laundry bags, inside of which I sewed fine-mesh nylon drapery gauze to remove most of the fines from the peat.

 

[Mazan]

I never add peat directly into a tank. I make blackwater in a separate tank and then use it for water changes. I have more control in this way. Yes, peat can make a mess, but I reduce this by putting a large amount into my 'peat pillows', placing it on top of a filter plate and weighting it down with large inert rocks at the corners. I then let the r/o water circulate through it like it would if it were an air-driven undergravel filter.

My pillows are made from nylon mesh laundry bags, inside of which I sewed fine-mesh nylon drapery gauze to remove most of the fines from the peat.

That sounds like a good plan, I'll see what I can do with the water change water, I have some pieces of a UG filter that I cut up for something else, maybe I can make one with what I have left or, if not I can get hold of another cheaply. I won't put anything other than leaves in the tank. About how much peat do you use per litre/gallon? And how long does it take for the pH to change? The container I am using is one that is meant for keeping dog food, so its tall rather than wide, not sure of its volume but I can work it out later.

 

[Ben Rhau]

A quick update, I put some of the peat in old tights in a large tub of water about three days ago, the pH is now 6.5, same as the in the tank. It was about 6.8 to start with. I wasn't sure how much peat to add and I don't have any circulation through it.

A <column design> is the most effective, because the fraction collected at the bottom doesn't mix with the source water, so it's not equilibrating. That obviously takes some time and effort, so what Mike suggests (forcing water through the peat) is another good solution.

Also I had a bag of (Andean) alder cones that someone gave me a while back. I put a couple of handfuls in a saucepan and poured boiling water on them. Maybe that was too much at once? The water turned a very dark, almost reddish brown, and all the seeds came out of the cones. Not sure if I should put some, a little, or all of this stained water in the tank, or in the peat bucket that I am hoping to use for the next water change?

In my experience, it doesn't take a lot of alder cones to very darkly stain the water, so it is nice to have a concentrated stock to control the dilution. It's safe to put any amount in your tank, depending on how dark you want it. It won't affect your pH or TDS much, but it will add tannins/humic/fulvic acids, which are thought to be beneficial.

About how much peat do you use per litre/gallon? And how long does it take for the pH to change?

I think there are too many variables to answer, so it will take some trial and error. I would just measure periodically and pay attention to the rate of change. If you do find a regime where the pH lowers, assume that the rate of change will taper. Once it stabilizes, the pH might rise again after that.

 

[anewbie]

I put peat in filter bags behind my matten filters - to be honest even in my tanks without peat the ph settles around 4.9-5.1 range so i'm not sure the peat does a lot.