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Random Apisto

TerraFerma

New Member
Messages
15
Ordered four A. elizabethae several months ago. Out of that I appear to have a pair and a spare male. But I also have this fourth fellow - it appears to be a female of another species.

Any idea what the forth one might be? The elizabethae aren't particularly fond of him/her, and vice versa.
 

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MacZ

Well-Known Member
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2,958
Location
Germany
Reminds me of those, but would be quite a coincidence. On the other hand... same riversystem, so it could be possible as a bycatch.
 

Frank Hättich

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
563
Location
Germany
Ordered four A. elizabethae several months ago. Out of that I appear to have a pair and a spare male. But I also have this fourth fellow - it appears to be a female of another species.

Any idea what the forth one might be? The elizabethae aren't particularly fond of him/her, and vice versa.
A1 & A2 shows a brevis-group species. Given the shape of dorsal fin and caudal spot and the fact that they came with (or as?) A. elizabethae, it's likely A. brevis. A3 is a young male of an agassizii-group species. Which one I can't tell for sure, but one possibility would be A. gephyra.
 

Frank Hättich

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5 Year Member
Messages
563
Location
Germany
... looking at A3 again, I now have doubts about it being an agassizii-group species - it could likely be A. elizabethae too.
 

Mike Wise

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5 Year Member
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Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I agree with Frank. The 1st 2 photos show a male brevis-group species, but I'm not certain that it is A. brevis, which should show a dark anal spot. It could be a young A. personata? Time will tell if the dorsal fin develops. The 3rd looks like a young male A. elizabethae to me, too.
 

TerraFerma

New Member
Messages
15
Thank you guys. Seems I got one elizabethae and three mystery apistos...

Will check back in once they have grown out a bit.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,366
Wild fishes are like a box of chocolate; you sort of know what you will get but you never know for sure until they grow up (or in the case of chocolate until you take a bite; but hopefully not many of us bite our fishes).
 

MacZ

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Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Wild fishes are like a box of chocolate; you sort of know what you will get but you never know for sure until they grow up (or in the case of chocolate until you take a bite; but hopefully not many of us bite our fishes).
Great, now I imagine canned dwarf cichlids. o_O
 

MacZ

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Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Kind of wish they came in a can so I could stick them back in. They aren't turning out to be quite as exciting as the thing I thought I purchased
Dwarf cichlids are not for everyone. But now you have them and you haven't got the most common ones either. Get into researching them, work on the tank making it a closer match to the habitat and so on. I am sure that route will make it more interesting.
 

TerraFerma

New Member
Messages
15
Dwarf cichlids are not for everyone. But now you have them and you haven't got the most common ones either. Get into researching them, work on the tank making it a closer match to the habitat and so on. I am sure that route will make it more interesting.
Thank you for the encouraging words.

After poking around for brevis group species - this is the closest looking thing I've found:



 

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Frank Hättich

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5 Year Member
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563
Location
Germany
After poking around for brevis group species - this is the closest looking thing I've found:

A. sp. Breibinden is the former common name of A. piaroa (A164). There are several piaroa-like species and forms and all of them look similar to A. brevis. The main differences are the shape of the dorsal fin and the caudal spot. A. brevis has a low dorsal fin which in large males might be serrated (pointed) in the anterior membranes, whereas in the piaroa-like forms at least the anterior (if not all) membranes of the dorsal are strongly elongated. The caudal spot in A. brevis is usually separated from the lateral band by a smaller or larger gap, whereas in the piaroa-like forms it might be narrower at that position but is still continuous.

Your fish is for sure either A. brevis or one of the piaroa-like forms. But from the photos you have posted so far it's not possible to tell for sure. Please make photos of all your specimens so that the fully spread dorsal fin of the males can be seen clearly and the lateral band and caudal spot of males and females are shown very distinctly. Please also tell us the size of the specimens.

Since your fish came as A. elizabethae and thus are from the Rio Negro, the only possibilities among the piaroa-like forms are A. cf. piaroa (A165), A. sp. D45 and A. sp. D41 (where the latter two might in the end turn out to be the same species as the former). These three have a distinct feature in common that distinguishes them from the piaroa-like forms of the Orinoco: particularly the males often show a large black blotch on the caudal peduncle, as can be seen here:

18451543_772869019536442_4706833407747994899_o.jpg


So if your fish will never show such a blotch, they are either A. brevis, not from the Rio Negro or a so far unknown species.
 

Frank Hättich

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
563
Location
Germany
There's a small gap between caudal spot and lateral band which points towards A. brevis. The complete dorsal fin is low but it's anterior serration is very strong for a typical male of this species (though it might in part be due to a damage of the membranes). Please show photos of all your specimens (e.g. the smaller one in the foreground).
 

TerraFerma

New Member
Messages
15
Thanks Frank.

The first pic is what I thought might have a chance of being a female. Round in shape and the big male and him/her like to hang out.

Second pic is what I'm pretty sure is a subadult male. Neither of the other two like him.

Third pic is of the "female" flared.


It's amazing how the "female" and subadult male can flash on and off the black lateral line and just show the two spots - I assume this is when they have conflict with the others.
 

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Frank Hättich

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
563
Location
Germany
Yes A7, A9, A10 is a female. About A8 I'm not sure.

As for the ID: we are looking for differences in the area between caudal spot and lateral band as subtle as these:

piaroa vs brevis.jpg


So far none of the photos makes me 100% sure about this. However, imo A4, A5 and A9 point towards A. brevis. So either show us more conclusive photos of lateral bands/caudal spots or let's wait how the dorsal fin of the male(s) develop. What size is the large male?

Btw. A. brevis is a rather rare species in the hobby! So if yours are in fact A. brevis it would be worthwhile to breed and spread them (though probably not from a monetary point of view).
 
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TerraFerma

New Member
Messages
15
The male, nose to tip of tail extensions, is about 4cm.


His caudal spot situation:
 

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Frank Hättich

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
563
Location
Germany
Thanks! I'm quite certain that it's A. brevis. But if I'm wrong and it's some piaroa-like species, my mistake will become obvious quite soon by a significant change in the shape of the dorsal fin ;)
 

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