Question about difference between Apistogramma sp.Breitbinden and Apistogramma Megaptera

[Champ_17]

Again, that i confuse about 2 species although I used to keep both 2 year ago.
but last week, suppler who import wild pleco said that he got 4 male unknow apistogramma 4 pcs, So i went to the farm and
got these 2 male. One is look like sp.Breitbinden or Piaroa and another is look like Megaptera.
pls help me to indentify.
1.

2.

 

[Mike Wise]

The first probably is A. piaroa that still has some fin development ahead of it. The second is A. megaptera (A. sp. Kurzlappen).

 

[Champ_17]

Again, that i confuse about 2 species although I used to keep both 2 year ago.
but last week, suppler who import wild pleco said that he got 4 male unknow apistogramma 4 pcs, So i went to the farm and
got these 2 male. One is look like sp.Breitbinden or Piaroa and another is look like Megaptera.
pls help me to indentify.
1.View attachment 5816
2.View attachment 5817

Thank you,Mike, Are 2 species live in the same place?
Is it possible to found hybrid in the nature?

 

[Mike Wise]

According to Massa & Lasso 2014, the species come from nearby, but different locations. Here is an overlay of the 2 distribution maps from their paper:

green = A. megaptera; red = A. piaroa.

Is it possible to hybridize the 2 species? Probably, yes because they are closely related members of the brevis-group. No one has reported wild crosses that I know about.

 

[Champ_17]

According to Massa & Lasso 2014, the species come from nearby, but different locations. Here is an overlay of the 2 distribution maps from their paper:

View attachment 5820
green = A. megaptera; red = A. piaroa.

Is it possible to hybridize the 2 species? Probably, yes because they are closely related members of the brevis-group. No one has reported wild crosses that I know about.

Thank you Mike, recently i notice that there is Apistogramma sp.Breitbinden was sell in the name Megaptera and some has red Operculum which sell in higher price.

 

[Mike Wise]

The shape of the males' dorsal fins is the easiest way to separate A. megaptera from A. piaroa. Both species have some males that show red on the face. It's no different than what occurs in A. borellii. The color is unimportant for species identification, but can be for selling price!

 

[DuEtAP]

What would folks say this guy is ? Looksike pairoa to me

Much appreciated

 

[Mike Wise]

Definitely not A. megaptera. It probably is A. piaroa but there are other similar species out there, like D11. It would be helpful to know the collecting location.

 

[Wojtek.86]

Według Massa & Lasso 2014 gatunki pochodzą z pobliskich, ale różnych lokalizacji. Oto nakładka 2 map rozmieszczenia z ich artykułu:

View attachment 5820
zielony = A. megaptera; czerwony = A. piaroa.

Czy możliwe jest skrzyżowanie tych dwóch gatunków? Prawdopodobnie tak, ponieważ są blisko spokrewnionymi członkami grupy brevis. Nikt nie zgłosił dzikich krzyżówek, o których bym wiedział.

 

[Wojtek.86]

co to dokładnie jest what are these exact locations?

 

[Mike Wise]

From original description (translated from Spanish):

A. piaroa
Lower Río Ventuari (Caños Tigre and Chipiro); middle Orinoco in channels near the Orinoco-Ventuari internal delta below the confluence of these two rivers (Caños El Carmen, Perro de Agua, Winare, Palometa, and Manaka channels); lower Ríos Guaviare, Autana, and Cataniapo.

A. megaptera
Ríos Inírida and Mavaca, and east of the Atabapo River in morichales/side channels (that drain northward and flow into the Orinoco River (Mikolji, pers. comm.).

I would guess that the 2 species will interbreed if given no choice, like in an aquarium. In the wild fish have more choices.

 

[Wojtek.86]

Czy do breitbinden also have a dot on the tail fin circle? or just a 165, a 164?

 

[Frank Hättich]

If you mean a large black blotch on the caudal peduncle, this is only seen in A165:

A164 can show a black blotch on the caudal peduncle too, but it is usually smaller, less pronounced and restricted to the area below the lateral band.

 

[Wojtek.86]

Jeśli masz na myśli dużą, czarną plamę na trzonie ogonowym, to można ją zobaczyć tylko u osobnika A165:

View attachment 16531

U osobnika A164 również może występować czarna plama na trzonie ogonowym, jednak jest ona zwykle mniejsza, mniej wyraźna i ograniczona do obszaru poniżej bocznego paska.

 

[Wojtek.86]

o to mi chodziło yes that's what I meant, thank you very much for your help, and do you have a picture of breitbinden? they are often signed badly on the internet like megaptera or piaroa

 

[Frank Hättich]

and do you have a picture of breitbinden? they are often signed badly on the internet like megaptera or piaroa

A. sp. Breitbinden is the same species as A. piaroa. "Breitbinden" is just the common name of the species that was in use before it had been scientifically described as A. piaroa.

 

[Wojtek.86]

A. sp. Breitbinden to ten sam gatunek co A. piaroa. „Breitbinden” to po prostu nazwa zwyczajowa gatunku, która była używana zanim został naukowo opisany jako A. piaroa.

 

[Wojtek.86]

thank you very much for the information