Potentially sick elizabethae?

[Apistofan_Tony]

Hello all,

I recently acquired 6 A. elizabethae. They seem to be doing fine (swimming fine, picking at sand, etc.) However, recently a few have developed something that I would like expert advice on. Attached are pictures of the fish.

This male is behaving normally, but has what appears to be a slight "bump" on top of his head.

This female has discoloration/slight swelling near her right eye.

This female has a slightly red mouth/nasal region.

Sorry if the pictures are blurry - I did my best. Tank parameters are as follows:

pH: 7.1
Temp: 78
GH:2-3
KH:3
Conductivity: 200

Water changes are 15-20% twice a week. Any thoughts/advice appreciated.

 

[Mike Wise]

The photo are simply not good enough to say what caused the bump. My question is with such soft water why is the pH so high? A. elizabethae is a true blackwater species and would be much healthier in more acidic water around pH 5.5-6.0.

 

[Apistofan_Tony]

Mike,

I agree with you, and I'm currently working on lowering the pH with RO water, indian almond and oak leaves, and peat. It is a slower process than I first thought. Is there anything else you can think of that would help figure this out? The only disease I really have much experience with is ich, so I guess I'm just concerned that there is something wrong and I would be out of my element.

 

[wethumbs]

They all looks like bacteria infections due to poor water quality manifesting as various physical signs.
Mike is right about them being blackwater Apisto, but more importantly they are very sensitive to poor water quality.

Prognosis: they will die without proper antibiotics treatment.

 

[gerald]

agree with wetthumbs, probably bacterial infection. read these links: http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388mycoarticle.pdf
http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388mycoarticle.pdf
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Mycobacteriosis

 

[Apistofan_Tony]

I appreciate the input. What sort of antibiotic treatment should I look into? I really don't see water quality here being an issue necessarily - I have 2 other tanks with apistos on the same water change regimen and never seen signs like this in the other fish. I received these fish less than 2 weeks ago, so I am concerned at this point they brought this with them. Regardless, at this point it doesn't matter. What would your recommendation be? If they have mycobacteriosis, I really can't do much, can I?

 

[wethumbs]

In this case, the fish may have already gotten the infection from the seller's tank. I am assuming the seller is not a breeder but rather a reseller that didn't take appropriate care to quarantine the fish. It is wise to not rush in and buy the fish when they just arrived, letting them 'marinate' at the seller's tank for a couple of weeks reduce your chance of getting sick fish.

This type of internal bacteria infection is hard to treat. The treatment mainly help the ones in the tank that haven't shown the sign. Once physical signs are shown, it is just a matter of time. In most cases, fish will eat and act normal including breeding as well. However, I notice your fish are too young to breed. You can try any of the aminoglycoside antibiotics. They are not cheap but so are your fish.

 

[Apistofan_Tony]

Wethumbs,

You are correct - this was a reseller. He did quarantine the fish for a week for me, but I'm sure that probably was not enough time adequately ensure fish were healthy. This is a learning experience and I will be sure not to make the same mistake again. One question - is it likely that they are all infected, even the 3 others not showing physical symptoms? I ask because I could try to move the "healthy" ones to another quarantine tank in the hopes that they won't become ill. Thanks all for your responses.

 

[gerald]

Quarantine is useful against many skin and gill parasites and some faster-progressing internal diseases. But let's face it: quarantine does not protect against slow-growing internal diseases, some of which can persist for years before any symptoms show up, maybe not until the fish is stressed by other factors (water condition, diet, disease, aggression, old age). Some of theses slow-progressing diseases, including Mycobacterium, are "facultative pathogens" that live in aquatic environments or wet soil nearly everywhere, not just on fish, so the question of whether your other fish are "already infected" may not be relevant. However, a fish with obvious symptoms (sores, bloating, etc) is probably increasing the exposure load of bacteria to the other fish, so it's probably best to isolate the sick ones.