blue-green algae issue

[anewbie]

One of my 180's got some blue-green algae growing on the substrate; and i'm trying to figure out why and if i need to do anythign to address it. It started (perhaps related or unrelated); when i soften the water by using ro water for water changes (the tank started with tap; and after 3 months i acquired some b. cupido and decided to reduce the hardness). The original ec was around 240 and the current ec is around 120 (I dont' know if the ph has dropped below 7 or if that woudl trigger cyanobacteria).

I have another aquarium with straight tap around the same size that has a much higher fish density but has not developed any cyanobacteria - it has a different light system but the same substrate and as i noted about 2x to 3x fish density. Both aquariums have sump and both get weekly water changes.

I'm undecided if i need to do anything about these patches of cyano; i've used chemi-clean on a 29 before with success and no obvious adverse effects but this aquarium has a bunch of small c. hastatus along with the b. cupido. The temp of the upstair tank is around 75-76; this one is 78 (in case a few degree difference is a factor).

Just not sure if this is an issue (beyond cosmetic that require drastic action). there is a bit on the plants and i've wiped most of that off; most of it is in the front corner for some reason - i'd say about 10% to 15% of the surface has some cyano (I presume it is cyano).

 

[MacZ]

Cyano bacteria are omnipresent, it takes special conditions for them to appear visible and light is a key factor. Does the corner that's especially addected get more light than the rest?

 

[anewbie]

Cyano bacteria are omnipresent, it takes special conditions for them to appear visible and light is a key factor. Does the corner that's especially addected get more light than the rest?

I don't believe so; the lights are long vertical and hang 1 foot back from the front. The area directly under the light has little or less cyano.

When the cyano started occurring i dug out my par meter and the par in that area was around 15; i increased the light to bring it up to 45.

 

[MacZ]

When the cyano started occurring i dug out my par meter and the par in that area was around 15; i increased the light to bring it up to 45.

To be frank: I have no idea what to do with that information.

The only thing I can say is, I suppose the area affected just hits the sweet spot lightingwise.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

i'd say about 10% to 15% of the surface has some cyano (I presume it is cyano).

It is definitely Cyanobacteria. We think it might be associated with enhanced levels of dissolved organic matter, often arising from the filter (if you stuff your filter full and don't clean it etc).

Cyano bacteria are omnipresent,

They are, and there are species that are associated with organic pollution and others that are associated with cleaner water <"Lenntech has a list">.

There is also a suggestion that tannic and humic compounds may deter it and I have these in my tanks but little obvious BGA.

Some species have the ability to fix inorganic nitrogen ("diazotrophic"), although that isn't true of Oscillatoria spp. which have been isolated from aquariums <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cyanobacteria-identification-at-last.60496/">. This nitrogen fixing ability is why it is thought that raising fixed nitrogen levels may deter them, I've no idea whether it works or not.

So all in all a bit of an unknown.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,

It is definitely Cyanobacteria. We think it might be associated with enhanced levels of dissolved organic matter, often arising from the filter (if you stuff your filter full and don't clean it etc).

They are, and there are species that are associated with organic pollution and others that are associated with cleaner water <"Lenntech has a list">.

There is also a suggestion that tannic and humic compounds may deter it and I have these in my tanks but little obvious BGA.

Some species have the ability to fix inorganic nitrogen ("diazotrophic"), although that isn't true of Oscillatoria spp. which have been isolated from aquariums <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cyanobacteria-identification-at-last.60496/">. This nitrogen fixing ability is why it is thought that raising fixed nitrogen levels may deter them, I've no idea whether it works or not.

So all in all a bit of an unknown.

cheers Darrel

The problem I'm having this is it is counter intuitive; the issue started with i switch from tap to ro water (might not be related); the fish density is fairly light (8 2 inch b.cupido; 30 1/2 inch c. hastatus; 2 or 3 2 inch pleco; and 10ish a. pucallpaensis).

I do a 40 gallon water change once a week. The filter is a 80 gallon sump.

The substrate is a little deep but i've tried digging through it to the glass bottom and no bubbles or obvious indication of trapped gas. I suppose food could be getting trapped down there but it is on the opposite side where i feed the fishes. I.e, I'm not saying that the root cause is incorrect but the things people list as the problem seem opposite of what that corner is exposed to at least relative to some of my other aquariums which is why this is perplexing me.

Once I did have an aquarium that had some cyano due to nitrogen gas build up in the substrate but i was able to sovle it by adding current that disperse the generated gas (from bacteria) and the problem went away. This stuff is really thick in substance and has no odor.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The substrate is a little deep but i've tried digging through it to the glass bottom and no bubbles or obvious indication of trapped gas. I suppose food could be getting trapped down there but it is on the opposite side where i feed the fishes. I.e, I'm not saying that the root cause is incorrect but the things people list as the problem seem opposite of what that corner is exposed to at least relative to some of my other aquariums which is why this is perplexing me.

I don't have an answer, as well as tannic and humic substances I have Malaysian Trumpet Snails (Melanoides tuberculata) in the tanks and really heavy planting, but I'm not sure what stops the tanks getting cyanobacteria outbreaks.

The only place I can sometimes find any obvious symptoms is on the underside of the <"Nile Cabbage (Pistia stratiotes) rosettes">, usually when they are dying back in the winter <"https://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/algae.18759/#post-90810">.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,

I don't have an answer, as well as tannic and humic substances I have Malaysian Trumpet Snails (Melanoides tuberculata) in the tanks and really heavy planting, but I'm not sure what stops the tanks getting cyanobacteria outbreaks.

The only place I can sometimes find any obvious symptoms is on the underside of the <"Nile Cabbage (Pistia stratiotes) rosettes">, usually when they are dying back in the winter <"https://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/algae.18759/#post-90810">.

cheers Darrel

Oh well this is the first aquarium in 4 years i had a cyano issue; so i will watch is closely. If it gets worse i'll use chemi-clean; but hopefully it will clear up on its own as the aquarium ages.

Is there a threshold when it becomes a health issue for fishes ?

 

[rasmusW]

Is this part of the tank more exposed to sunlight? Maybe an unintended light source could be the “tipping point”… -just a thought.
I noticed i too have a bit in the sand, up against the side of the glass. That part of the tank faces a window that has morning light.

-r

 

[anewbie]

Is this part of the tank more exposed to sunlight? Maybe an unintended light source could be the “tipping point”… -just a thought.
I noticed i too have a bit in the sand, up against the side of the glass. That part of the tank faces a window that has morning light.

-r

No sunlight as it is on the other side of the room. The windows in that area are covered 24/7. The other aquarium does get some sunlight but has no issue of blue-green; just a little typical alage on teh glass but not much.

The part that really confuses me is the reason people normally state for cyanobacteria are contradictory to this aquarium compared to a sister aquarium that has more organics and harder water. The only thing i see different (they use the same substrate) is this one has probably 1/4 to 1/2 inch deeper substrate (which can be problematic) but this is not super fine substrate - it is jungle river sand which is .5mm to 1.5mm (it leans closer to 0.5mm); also it is on the opposite side i feed the fish so more food particles i would think would end up on the other side that is not having this issue (yet). I suppose i might be over feeding given the fish density but not sure that is the case. Anyway i'll probably give in and use chemi-clean in a week or so - kind of hate to subject the fishes to it but it worked well the last time i used it.

 

[anewbie]

@rasmusW You asked about the sun - this aquarium across from the one with cyano is infront of the window; of course the window has a shade but it has no cyano - go figure. Same substrate but there are a lot of differences. The ec is around 20-25 (the other one is around 100-150); and the fish population is tightly controlled (1 pango merysi; 2 or 3 pangio sem; 3 pangio sheffordi; 2 red tail otto; some snails and a pair of a. sp winkies); The only reason i bothered to post it is because it uses the same substrate and the substrate is deeper than the one upstairs. Oh one other difference which might be important is most of the plants in this aquarium are quite old as they were in it before i moved. The val for example is around 5 years old and the tiny anubia on the bottom - the one on the right is 3 1/2 years old and the one on the left i guess is newer maybe only 2 years old. the e. opacus on the left center is 2 years old. Not sure about the lace plant - can't remember when i put the bulb in i think it went dormant for a long time. Stuff on the bottom grow really slow but the hornworth i have to thin out every 4 or so weeks.

 

[rasmusW]

Yeah!! Sorry, i don’t have any qualified guesses as to why and how it’s come, nor why that particulare part is more exposed.
-but i do hope you figure out a good solution.

-r

 

[Mazan]

According to many sources Cyanobacteria seems to be associated with low nitrates or maybe a high phosphate to nitrate ratio. I have had outbreaks occasionally, always when nitrates have been close to zero. I once seemed to cure it by adding almond leaves, but on another occasion this didn’t work, in fact I already had a lot of leaf litter in the tank at the time, maybe too much organic material? I have no idea if the hardness of the water has anything to do with it, mine is very soft. I have other tanks where it has never occurred.

 

[anewbie]

I ended up addressing the issue with chemi-clean last week. I had used the stuff once before 4 years ago in a 29 without ill effect and it seemed to work well as the aquarium is mostly clear now - still a tiny bit left but i think it is dying and it is as i said just a tiny bit.
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I have one other aquarium with this problem and i will treat it sunday and do the required water change tuesday.
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The reason for this post is that i haven't had problems with the stuff in years and the last time was definitely related to anaerobic bacteria pockets in the substrate (which i resolved). This time the problem seems to be related to very low mineral aquariums (ro water). I don't think it is directly related to nitrate level since all my aquariums have relatively low nitrate but the ones with tap water aren't having this issue; though it could be nitrate to phosphate ratio as i never measure phosphate and would require a fairly precise instrument (not api drops) to get the correct nitrate level since it is sub 5.
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Anyway i'll only post again if the problem re-occurs. In the 29 once it went away it never came back.

 

[anewbie]

An updated picture:

this is actually my cupido aquarium and while they love to get fed if i do anything other than feed them they retreat - so taking pictrures of them is difficult (some of the time); here you see them on the left. They are among the more shy cichild i own - my other geos are extremely friendly with little fear. No new plants have been added for a couple of months so the stuff in there is not doing badly - the pink flamingo (which normally doesn't grow well for me is actually doing really well so I'm thinking it loves soft water though i should probably check the literature.