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Newly identified pencil fish?

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
One of my fish shops near where I live is going to sell what they called a newly identified pencil fish, I haven’t seen them myself, just wondering if anyone have seen them before?
I feel like he has photoshopped quite a bit but here’s a picture sent from the shop owner
 

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rasmusW

Active Member
Messages
294
Interresting but yes it does look like a “color enhaced” n. Beckfordi “red”.
Not sure if the “red” is a natural color variation, to begin with.

-r
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
Can you link the source of the picture?
I don't have a source to the picture, the shop owner told me it's a type of wc fish, not domestic strain.
So it seems like it is N. beckfordi? But the colour looks a bit different from the typical type of N. beckfordi?
 

rasmusW

Active Member
Messages
294
Thinking of how many variations there is of n. Marginatus, it’s probally quite plausible there is more variations of beckfordi too. It could be a red/Golden beckfordi with a lot of blue sheen (not sure if that is spelled correctly)..?

if you decide to buy some of them, make sure to post some pictures for the rest of us

-r
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
Thinking of how many variations there is of n. Marginatus, it’s probally quite plausible there is more variations of beckfordi too. It could be a red/Golden beckfordi with a lot of blue sheen (not sure if that is spelled correctly)..?

if you decide to buy some of them, make sure to post some pictures for the rest of us

-r
Are there many variations of n. marginatus? I have never seen shops selling them in my area.
Might not buy them if they are of the n. beckfordi strain but I'll try to take a picture if I pass by.

I got a few of the n. marilynae few weeks ago, they were with my black shirt tetras originally but I believe 4 of them got eaten the next morning. Didnt expect they could fit a whole n. marilynae in their mouth. So the rest are with my apistogramma fries now.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,307
Location
Germany
I don't have a source to the picture, the shop owner told me it's a type of wc fish, not domestic strain.
So it seems like it is N. beckfordi? But the colour looks a bit different from the typical type of N. beckfordi?

As I found out it's just a photoshopped (colourenhanced and mirrored) stockfoto of N. beckfordi. That's why I always do a source check on such pictures.
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
As I found out it's just a photoshopped (colourenhanced and mirrored) stockfoto of N. beckfordi. That's why I always do a source check on such pictures.
Yeah from your link, it's just n. beckfordi, let's see if there's any difference when it comes in. They should be there some time next week according to the shop owner.
 

rasmusW

Active Member
Messages
294
Are there many variations of n. marginatus? I have never seen shops selling them in my area.
Might not buy them if they are of the n. beckfordi strain but I'll try to take a picture if I pass by.

I got a few of the n. marilynae few weeks ago, they were with my black shirt tetras originally but I believe 4 of them got eaten the next morning. Didnt expect they could fit a whole n. marilynae in their mouth. So the rest are with my apistogramma fries now.
As far as i know there are some differences in brazillian vs. Peruvian populations. Mostly in regards to the red spot and Line thickness. Plus there is also a “Golden” version from Peru.

-r
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,307
Location
Germany
Yeah from your link, it's just n. beckfordi, let's see if there's any difference when it comes in. They should be there some time next week according to the shop owner.
I just hope the store owner isn't falling for that age-old trick himself and only tried it on you.
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
As far as i know there are some differences in brazillian vs. Peruvian populations. Mostly in regards to the red spot and Line thickness. Plus there is also a “Golden” version from Peru.

-r
Very interesting, I didn't know there're different populations. I think the Golden bit is the golden hue from wc tetras to protect itself from parasites? They usually disappear slowly in home aquarium.
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
I just hope the store owner isn't falling for that age-old trick himself and only tried it on you.
It could be, the owner told me he didn't know much about nannostomus himself, it's probably a fraud from his supplier, let's see what he got later.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,307
Location
Germany
Very interesting, I didn't know there're different populations. I think the Golden bit is the golden hue from wc tetras to protect itself from parasites? They usually disappear slowly in home aquarium.
There are no aquatic parasites that go by visual almost all follow biochemical signatures or spread in numbers to hit a host by chance. I would rather suspect it's a adaption to visibility in their home waters for potential partners or to evade predation, as many fish get that colouration back when kept in conditions close to nature.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,656
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
N. beckfordi has several junior synonyms: Nannostomus anomalus Steindachner, 1876; Nannostomus aripirangensis Meinken, 1931; Nannostomus simplex Eigenmann, 1909; Nannostomus beckfordi surinami Hoedeman, 1954. Back in the Dark ages, when I started to first keep pencilfish, N. beckfordi was sold as N. anomala, which had a light golden hue and imported from Guyana. The darker form, with more red on fins and body from the lower Amazon were sold as N. aripirangensis.

As for N. marginatus, there are many populations with subtle differences. I have collected forms from different locations in Peru that I could separate by subtle differences in body markings and color.

Dr. Stanley Weitzman (God rest his soul) was the authority on nannostomins - and a hard-core 'lumper'. Rumor mill was that several of his proteges were eager to split this (super) species into several species, but out of respect for this great ichthyologist would not. Now with genetic testing, I expect to see a lot of species-splitting in the future
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
There are no aquatic parasites that go by visual almost all follow biochemical signatures or spread in numbers to hit a host by chance. I would rather suspect it's a adaption to visibility in their home waters for potential partners or to evade predation, as many fish get that colouration back when kept in conditions close to nature.
Hmm interesting, I have never heard of the above two hypothesis. I dont think there's any research paper done for the occurrence of the golden hue?
I agreed looking for potential partners to be one of the reasons, not sure about evading predation because the golden hue kinda increase their visibility in this case?
I remember reading somewhere that says the colouration disappears after he added an anti-parasitic medication
 

Sowah

Member
Messages
41
N. beckfordi has several junior synonyms: Nannostomus anomalus Steindachner, 1876; Nannostomus aripirangensis Meinken, 1931; Nannostomus simplex Eigenmann, 1909; Nannostomus beckfordi surinami Hoedeman, 1954. Back in the Dark ages, when I started to first keep pencilfish, N. beckfordi was sold as N. anomala, which had a light golden hue and imported from Guyana. The darker form, with more red on fins and body from the lower Amazon were sold as N. aripirangensis.

As for N. marginatus, there are many populations with subtle differences. I have collected forms from different locations in Peru that I could separate by subtle differences in body markings and color.

Dr. Stanley Weitzman (God rest his soul) was the authority on nannostomins - and a hard-core 'lumper'. Rumor mill was that several of his proteges were eager to split this (super) species into several species, but out of respect for this great ichthyologist would not. Now with genetic testing, I expect to see a lot of species-splitting in the future
Thank you for your very detailed information Mike!

I guess what we see mostly nowadays in fish shops are commercially bred n. beckfordi, it would kinda be impossible to see different strains of them.

That makes sense! Different locations of the same species would have slightly different genetic variations, just like apistos
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,307
Location
Germany
Hmm interesting, I have never heard of the above two hypothesis. I dont think there's any research paper done for the occurrence of the golden hue?
I agreed looking for potential partners to be one of the reasons, not sure about evading predation because the golden hue kinda increase their visibility in this case?
I remember reading somewhere that says the colouration disappears after he added an anti-parasitic medication

Oh, I was just shooting possibilities, as many similar colour changes have one of these two reasons. Increased visibility is often used to irritate predators, so even when we as humans can look through it, that doesn't mean it's not an advantage in the wild.
 

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