My A. hongsloi story...and advice please.

[c.liverbird]

Hi guys. So last August I bought an A.Hongsloi pair.

Tbh the male was too much for the female. He harassed her A LOT. She ended up with an ulcer on her side (stress? ) which turned fungal and if not respond to treatment. I had to euthanise her as she was fitting etc. It was horrible.

The male grew frustrated on his own but we shortly aquire a more dominant female from the same lfs and they were an instant hit with each other!

They had failed spawning attempts and we're never far apart.

However, my male got hole in the head a couple of weeks ago and quickly began to suffer. His whole head sprouted with fungus and didn't respond to treatment. Again I had to put him out of his misery.

In the last week I have rehoused my small community into a new 245l tank.

During the move... The female (now alone) damaged her side in the transfer and had a small wound near her fin. It became fungal but seems to have responded to treatment but she is isolating herself and has become pale and just sitting around. .. loss of appetite....is she missing her mate? Or has she probably got a bacterial infection that hasn't responded to treatment?
My water per a meters are all at 0.0 ph is 7.2-7.5 soft water. Temp currently 23.9 treated with myxazin.

 

[Robi]

From your description and your previously posted pictures, you might have a bacterial infection called "columnaris disease". This disease causes ulcers and a "fungus like" growth, even can mimic "hole in the head disease", eventually, slowly leads to loss of appetite and demise if left untreated. It is more common in "soft-water" fish and it is an opportunistic aerobic (occurs in well oxygenated tanks) pathogen, targets stressed out or older fish, when it's immune system is weak (e.g. transferring from tanks). The affected fish should be quarantined and treated with Furan 2 + Kanamycin (both), if it has ulcers methylene blue bath (30 min/day) should be added. Myxazin can slow down the disease but won't cure it. Furan 2 + Kanamycin (Kanaplex from Seachem) are absorbed through the skin and treat systemic infection. Honestly it's a hassle, I had success with this treatment, even bred fish after recovery, but it can re-occur months to years later if the fish gets stressed out again. If you are really attached to the fish, give it a try, but definitively quarantine it. You can read more here http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html#columnaris . Good luck!

Robi

p.s. just an observation... your tank is very nice, but a little too bright for Apistos, maybe some surface plants or java moss would provide more shelter (less stress) if you'd like to keep Apistogrammas in there...

 

[gerald]

Agree with most of what Robi says except the ID of the bacteria. Columnaris usually starts on the fin edges, lips, and caudal peduncle, and it either kills the fish pretty quickly or goes away. It is usually not a slow lingering disease. My guess is that your fish may be infected with Mycobacterium, which often causes sores/ulcers, bloating/wasting (from kidney & liver damage), jaw deterioration, paralyzed fins (pectoral especially), sluggish behavior, and can persist for months or years before finally killing the fish. Symptoms show up on just one or a few fish at a time, often on old fish or stressed fish. It does not need to infect fish, and can persist for many years in a tank without any fish. I suspect it is present at low levels in almost all aquariums and natural aquatic environments, and is extremely difficult to kill. See Diana Walstad's article here: http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388mycoarticle1.pdf

 

[Robi]

I stand corrected Gerald... I guess I haven't seen much of mycobacterial infections in Apistos, though I've heard it's not uncommon. Maybe in my case the one I thought was "lingering columnaris" was an actual Fish TB. The good news is that the treatment I mentioned above, might actually work for mycobacterial infection too, though the course needs to be much longer or multiple courses. I happen to know a couple of things here and there about these medications, after all I am an ICU physician myself. Thx for the post.

 

[gerald]

Thanks Robi -- That IS good news that its treatable ... I didn't think anything really cured Myco in fish, although sometimes with good care the disease can slow down for awhile, and the fish can breed and produce healthy fry. I've seen this happen with kribensis, curviceps, angels, danios and tetras, but never with Apistos. Once the head/body lesions or jaw deterioration gets started on Apistos (and rams), they go steadily "downhill" in my experience, although it may take several months before they die. What dosage of Furan-2 and Kanamycin do you suggest?

 

[Robi]

Gerald,

I guess this applies for the fish already in the quarantine tank, right?... The main tank, just sterilize it, don't even bother... I would follow the instructions on the package inserts.

So... Kanamycin (Sachem - Kanaplex) 1 flat scoop / 5G every 2 days, and Furan 2 (API - product) one packet / 10 G daily for total of 6 days (20-30% water change every 2 days, before the next dose of Kanamycin). Kanamycin acts for 48 hours, Furan for 24 hours. Sachem does not recommend more frequent water changes than every 48 hours.

Kanamycin is an active anti-TB drug with good MIC (ability to kill bugs in a petri dish) for even the recent strains of M. marinarum (auto-corrected to MARINA RUM ) and Furan 2 is for synergy. For open ulcers, I would still do local treatments once or twice daily (cotton swab) with 50% potassium permanganate or peroxide, until the ulcer is gone. If the fish still looks sick after the 6 days or you are certain it is Mycobacterium, I would give a fish couple of days of break and repeat the course for another 6 days.

It worked for me Gerald, but as you said, it treats "acute Mycobacterium infection - flair up" and likely puts it back to a silent, chronic phase. In people it takes 3-6 MONTHS or more for the full course of TB treatment... Figures... It can get re-activated easily if the fish gets stressed out again, but as far as I know the fish is probably not infectious if there is no open sore. Of note, these meds bump up the TDS considerably (to +200 ppm above), just to be aware. This regimen is the standard and best stuff for columnaris otherwise, the reason I think it would work for Mycobacterium is that Kanamycin is an anti-TB drug and it worked on my "lingering columnaris" case, which you corrected me was likely Mycobacterium. Good luck and let me know if you tried it.

cheers

Robi