lowering Ph

[farm41]

How are you lowering Ph?

I now that chemicals are sold for doing this, are you using the chemicals? I have just been using peat for lowering the Ph and it has been working well, but I know not everyone uses peat. What are some other ways?

 

[tjudy]

I use Acid Buffer from Seachem and do nto seem to be having any problems. One issue with chemicals is that I do not see how you can add them without increasing the EC. I know that it goes up when I add Acid Buffer, but it comes Back down after a day or so, but the pH stays down.

Acid Buffer does not add phosphates like Discus Buffer, and Seachem states that the carbonates are converted into CO2.

 

[farm41]

Ted,

Does the acid buffer label give the active ingredients? Or are we just 'trusting them'. If it converts the carbonates, does that mean it is softening the water too? Have you tested the Kh before and after?


I don't mind using the peat for the blackwater fish, just wanted to have something else in the arsenal for the rest.

 

[tjudy]

Hi Matt,

I do not have a KH test kit. The pH stays down though, and in my experience the pH will come back up with other pH down products that use phos. acid. The carbonates are pretty good a sucking up hydrogen ions.

Seachem lists the ingredient bisulfate salts, but I am not sure that they are the truly active ingredient. The fact that a salt is added, however, will explain the increase in EC readings.

I have been very happy with Seachem products for a long time. Some products I do not like (such as Discus Buffer), and others I have not found any reason to stop using (such as the Flourish products). I also use their Cichlid Salt for my Tropheus.

 

[Randall]

Dear Matt,

I, too, use Seachem's Acid Buffer on occassion and have had much success with it. Good product.

Randall Kohn

 

[Roger]

I live in an area with water that has a high pH (8.4) and its hard to boot gH 14 kH 4-5.

What I have learned so far is that to lower the pH of my tap water, its almost impossible to do without spending all my time trying to keep it that way.

I switched to RO for the tanks that need it since changing the pH of RO is easier and usually more stable.

Put a bag of peat in your filter and the RO will naturally lower on its own. Mine drops from 7.2 to 5.6 on my water storage tank. I have noticed that I get better results when I heat my storage tank.

You can also use a commercialy available acid which I also use (trying to figure out which method I like best). Taking a 5 gal bucket of RO water and adding 4-6 drops of Muriatic acid the pH drops from 6.2 to 4.5. I did a test yesterday and the TDS went from 15 to 55 when I added the acid. 24 hours later pH still 4.5 TDS still at 55.

Muriatic Acid is HORRIBLY STRONG so dont play with this near your tanks untill you get a chance to figure out how your water is going to respond.

You can get this stuff at Home Depot for about $4 a gallon. They use it to adjust pool pH and etch cement.

 

[JCdisciple]

From all the research I've done, and even articles written by many "experts", the TDS, GH, KH, etc. are of more importance to apisto and dwarf cichlid breeding (in general) than pH is. Of coarse as these are lowered, the pH often tends to follow. For this reason, I'd shy away from using Muriatic Acid and any other chemical that will raise TDS levels. Peat is known to actually adsorb TDS and GH/KH, while it lowers the pH, and is therefore a more "natural" and "proper" (I use these terms loosely!) means to condition water to the correct parameters.

I only mention this because you mentioned TDS being raised by the acid. I have heard of many people breeding their fish using acids to adjust pH levels, so it CAN definately work. But I would tend to think their would be better fry yields when peat is used in conjunction with R/O water, though.

 

[Neil]

JCdisciple,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I'd shy away from using Muriatic Acid and any other chemical that will raise TDS levels. Peat is known to actually adsorb TDS and GH/KH, while it lowers the pH, and is therefore a more "natural" and "proper" (I use these terms loosely!) means to condition water to the correct parameters.

It is kind of trade off with pH and TDS sometimes. Although TDS is the larger concern, I have found that very low pH with certain species is important. RO, conditioned with peat, can only drive the pH down so much and then chemicals are usually required. I don't necessarily think that they are mandetory, but can be helpful at times. This may not be "proper", but it can be "natural" because the biotope of certain species has such a low pH.

I would tend to think their would be better fry yields when peat is used in conjunction with R/O water, though.

That is entirely possible, but I think the more important point is to simply get certain species to actually successfully reproduce. Fry yields for extremely difficult species are a secondary consideration.

Neil

 

[JCdisciple]

I do see your point, and I'm sure it's a faster and decent way to get your pH down for breeding. Oh, and I do understand that sometimes breeding AT ALL is good enough! :lol:

http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/peat page.html

This article was useful to me and states that peat usually is labelled with a pH value and that if used long enough, it will naturally lower the water to that "target" pH. Of coarse the amount you place in your filter or water bin may be completely exhausted before you reach that pH. Maybe adding additional, fresh, peat will continue to lower to these values. Just some thoughts....

Edit: Sorry, the link doesn't work! I copied it from the bottom of my "hard copy" that I printed out. It doesn't name the web site, either. Anyways, it was extremely informative and in-depth in regards to all aspects of peat use in aquariums, from substrate to water chemistry. Anyways, what I was trying to show you is that the author said you can lower the pH to, say, 3.0, if that is what the peat is labelled as! I'll try to find a usable link.

 

[adder]

Was reading through some older posts and stumbled onto this thread. I am the author of the link above. Just wanted to add that I haven't necessarily found many bales of peat where a label actually stated the Ph of the product. This was something I found via testing and experimentation. The affect peat will have on water chemistry depends very much on the chemistry of the water to begin with and the so-called 'strenght' of the peat. Trial and experimentation and most importantly, testing with the proper test kits, will demonstrate the respective peat's qualities and it's durability...

 

[berram]

Dear adder

I just found very useful your article about peat, but the TDS page seems to be unavailable. Could you relink it again?

Thank you

 

[adder]

Glad you could use it. I apologize for the TDS link - the page is still in the making and ended up being a much more in depth and longer page than I thought it would be so. It will be up in a month or two...(?). I'll post back when it's up.

 

[adder]

JCdisciple wrote :

I would tend to think their would be better fry yields when peat is used in conjunction with R/O water, though.

Neil wrote : That is entirely possible, but I think the more important point is to simply get certain species to actually successfully reproduce. Fry yields for extremely difficult species are a secondary consideration.


- Just reread the above posts. Interesting stuff and just wanted to express my agreement with both of you. My 'favorite combo' for many of the low TDS cichs is peat and R/O though this is mainly due to the high extremes of my local water chemistry.