Leaves litter for apisto tanks

[boyohboy]

AFAIK, the natural habitats for alot of apisto are thick layers of leaves litter as substrate, right? Do anyone actually put leaves in their tank to mimic that? Any particular kind of tree leaves common in N.America (Ontario Canada) can be put in tank?

 

[cootwarm]

I use Oak leaves, but I don't keep a thick layer of them. I make piles for them to swim in and out of. I usually make at least 1 good pile per square foot. I make the piles amoung the plants, caves, rocks and driftwood. I think they look great in the aquascape when placed in the right location. Also the apistos certainly DO enjoy them very much!

Use only dried brown ones. I usually select whole leaves with as few blemishes as possible so they look better in the tank. I think they may last longer as well. It seems that the blemishes are where the decay usually starts. They hold up pretty well for about 3 months or so. After about 6 months they will fall apart when you try to remove them.

I usually boil mine for about 3 to 5 minutes. This not only cleans them, but helps them soak up enough water to sink.

Michael

 

[boyohboy]

Now just have to find an actual oak tree somewhere before fall comes.

Everywhere I can only see maple leaf trees in here CANADA, how surprising :wink:
Actually i wonder if maple laves can be used??

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, you could use maple leaves, but the acidifying effects are much less noticable. Maples tend to prefer neutral to alkaline soils while oaks prefer acid soils. Apparently the leaves have similar properties to the soil for some reason. I'm sure you can find an oak somewhere. Even here in Denver, where the soil is very alkaline and oaks don't grow very well, there are a few oaks here and there.

 

[boyohboy]

well hope i can find an oak tree somewhere.

BTW, how does the actual oak tree leaves look like?

Like this
http://www.lrc.edu/trees/images/oak-leaves.jpg

or this? (need to copy and paste the link to see)
http://community.webshots.com/s/image1/3/10/14/95431014hYjSCK_ph.jpg

 

[BigDaddy]

That's an oak leaf

 

[Fatts]

I agree with you BigDaddy. I am not sure what those are that you have
boyohboy, but I am 100% sure that they are NOT oak leaves.

And just to add a little bit of my own findings, maple leaves appear to RAISE my PH, not lower it. I have tried boiling both maple and oak leaves. Oak leaves dropped my PH from 7.2 to 6.2 and the maple leaves raised my PH from 7.2 to 7.6.

 

[boyohboy]

I just google-seach "oak leaves" and came up with those images. Seems there are several type of oak trees?! i duno

Anyway, thanks for the pic BigDaddy.... the search for oak tree begins

Re: maple leaves raising pH... if that's true then it's no good. Too bad coz there's loads of maple trees everywhere :roll:

 

[johnnotis]

Actually, those pictures are types of oak leaves. Not all oak species have the standard multi-lobed appearance. Oak, beech, and elm leaves will all work fine for an apisto / rain forest tank, and the non-lobed beech and elm leaves look more like tropical plants to some people. All three are in the same plant family, Ulmaceae, by the way.

Maples are definitely a poor choice, both for physical reasons (they rot quickly) and because their chemistry is fundamentally different. If you find a tree with acorns on it, it's a safe bet you've got an oak.

-John

 

[tjnelson44]

Actually, oaks and beeches are members of F-a-g-a-c-e-a-e.
The dashes are so I could post the name, it kept getting censored.
Trevor

 

[Sime]

Can you pull the leaves off the tree and let them dry out or should you wait for them to fall off naturally?

 

[farm41]

gotta wait for the them to fall naturally, only use the leaves that are completely brown

 

[johnnotis]

Oh, geez, right you are about the family thing, Trevor. I hope my plantophile friends never see that post...

I've used leaves from American Elm, some ornamental oak (Pin Oak?), and American Beech in my tanks. All three are planted as ornamentals in my area. I usually just collect the brown, dry leaves off the ground, wash them in hot water, and throw them in the tank, 5-10 at a time. They provide floating cover for a while, and then sink. I usually pick them out as soon as they start to disintegrate. I haven't noticed any significant "tea" coloring from any of them. The beech seem to last the longest, but they can take a long time to sink. I've never bothered boiling them.

What types of leaves have other folks used? I suppose, more importantly, does anyone have any bad experiences?

-John

 

[boyohboy]

ok I ended up collecting a bunch of (I think is) oak leaves in a campsite. I soaked them in a bucket of tank water and the pH dropped from 7.4+ to 6.3~, so they seems good.

Couple questions tho:

The leaves inside the tank... I guess at the cut-end of the leaves some organic matter is slowly being release and thus some bacteria/fungus is growing around the cut-end of almost every leaves. Probably not a health issue for the fish but looks kinda ugly. Does you ppl have the same thing too? anyway to prevent it?

Does oak trees form those nuts (which the chipmunks/squirrell eat)? Those oak trees from the campsite form those nuts ... but couple of oak-leaf-shaped tree I found hear home don't form any nuts... so which is the real oak tree?

 

[coelacanth]

What types of leaves have other folks used? I suppose, more importantly, does anyone have any bad experiences?

The best leaves I have found so far are a species of Oak from the US called Red Oak. This is used over here in the UK as an ornamental, and I found the appearance of the leaves, being very large and irregularly lobate, more like the ones that can be seen in pics of leaf litter in the tropics (it's purely an aesthetic thing, Oak leaves in a tank just look to me like someone dropped a load of Oak leaves in there, but these look more 'authentic'). I found the same tree to be quite common in the Montreal area while there earlier this year. I always wait until they have fallen from the tree before collecting them, and a few fishbags full provide all I could need for the year. A female Pimental Apisto used a single leaf of this particular tree as cover to raise a full brood of fry to a decent size.

 

[Mike Wise]

Does oak trees form those nuts (which the chipmunks/squirrell eat)? Those oak trees from the campsite form those nuts ... but couple of oak-leaf-shaped tree I found hear
home don't form any nuts... so which is the real oak tree?

As far as I know all true oaks produce acorns (the smooth nuts with rough caps) that squirrels eat. I suggest that you go to the nearest library and get a basic book on trees. It will show you what oak trees, leaves, & acorns look like.

 

[UncleFishMan]

Tree Leaves

How about cottonwood trees? They grow in flood plains and areas with wet soils where pH of the soils are usually more acidic. The leaves are dropping all over the place. I think I will boil some up and place in a bucket and see if it drops the pH after a few days. What do you think?

 

[Mike Wise]

Cottonwood trees are about the only large deciduous tree native to my part of the US. It is part of the birch/aspen family of trees. It perfers alkaline soil. The leaves will not acidify water to any degree. I do use it for bog wood and it does no acidify water.

 

[UncleFishMan]

Thanks for the info Mike!

Found a few products. I'm sure any of these would work well.
The Laguna Peat for Ponds looks like you would get more bang for the buck. The Ketapeat look more specialized for the home aquarium. The Hagen Peat looks good too.

Ketapeat Nuggets:
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp...d.asp?id=133392


Hagen Fluval Peat Granules
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Hagen-F...nules-500-Grams

Laguna Peat Granules for Ponds
http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaen...at.php?link=115

 

[Apistomaster]

ok I ended up collecting a bunch of (I think is) oak leaves in a campsite. I soaked them in a bucket of tank water and the pH dropped from 7.4+ to 6.3~, so they seems good.

Couple questions tho:

The leaves inside the tank... I guess at the cut-end of the leaves some organic matter is slowly being release and thus some bacteria/fungus is growing around the cut-end of almost every leaves. Probably not a health issue for the fish but looks kinda ugly. Does you ppl have the same thing too? anyway to prevent it?

Does oak trees form those nuts (which the chipmunks/squirrell eat)? Those oak trees from the campsite form those nuts ... but couple of oak-leaf-shaped tree I found hear home don't form any nuts... so which is the real oak tree?

This is why it is wise to boil or steam the the leaves prior to use. It will kill most molds and bacteria and allow only the bacteria present in the aquarium water to finish decomposition.