Is 48inchx16inch large enough for two groups of ortegai?

[Frank Hättich]

See my comment in this thread: https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/a-cf-ortega-or-just-a-ortegai.25788/#post-128107

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree with Frank - as I almost always do.

 

[anewbie]

So this is my final post on this thread and is more for search results. I found my group of 4 (1m 3f) worked fine in a 65 (48inches x 16 inches). All three could breed at the same time. Whether this was because i gave them ample room or because they were hybrids and less aggressive i'm not sure. While not with frys two of the females got along fine the third stayed away at far end (40 inches away). The male would frequently swim to all three locations of the females. The tank setup was driftwood layered with slanted rocks making ad-hoc caves that females could pick to hide from each others.

I mostly post this because i know at least a couple of others had problems with m/f aggression with this species and I think the trick was just providing them enough room to spread out. I did manage to get successful spawns despite being hybrids but i can't comment further on behavior. I will unlikely obtain this species again since the exporter was sending hybrids making such purchases unreliable (i won't name the importer/seller). The male never did develop the stunning blue on Tom's page which i had hoped - it is now in a tap water aquarium sep. from the females.

 

[Mike Wise]

I wouldn't blame the retailer - or the exporter for that matter. The problem is that collectors find it easier to stock areas 'closer to home'. Like in Florida, sometimes the fish excape and 'mix' with similar species local to the new area. Some prime examples of restocking are A. alpahuayo and N. mortenthaleri. Both are now found in areas of the Rio Ucayali near Iquitos where they have never occurred in the past and far from their natural habitats in the upper Rio Nanay. It's just closer and easier to collect near Iquitos. I fear that we will see more of this occurring in the future. As for getting the true A. ortegai, I would only get fish that I collected myself in the Quebrada Paucaryacu (middle Río Ampiyacu) as Tom did or from someone I was confident who did. But that's just me.

 

[anewbie]

I wouldn't blame the retailer - or the exporter for that matter. The problem is that collectors find it easier to stock areas 'closer to home'. Like in Florida, sometimes the fish excape and 'mix' with similar species local to the new area. Some prime examples of restocking are A. alpahuayo and N. mortenthaleri. Both are now found in areas of the Rio Ucayali near Iquitos where they have never occurred in the past and far from their natural habitats in the upper Rio Nanay. It's just closer and easier to collect near Iquitos. I fear that we will see more of this occurring in the future. As for getting the true A. ortegai, I would only get fish that I collected myself in the Quebrada Paucaryacu (middle Río Ampiyacu) as Tom did or from someone I was confident who did. But that's just me.

It isn't a bad idea but i don't think i'll personally be making a trip to that region for a large number of reasons. So that leaves me to find someone who I have confident in such and I can hardly ask someone to go there on my behalf to collect a fish they possibly have no interest in (this exclude the fact they would almost certainly say no)... conversely i would have to find an importer who uses a reliable exporter and i don't really have any contacts of that nature.... hence what you seem to be saying is that is a fish to avoid. I realize you didn't really say that but the pragmatic impact of your statement is such.

I don't care much about hte fish being moved and farmed as long as the population is large enough from a genetic diversity; but it is the hybrid as a result of mixing species that cross breed. Of course IMHO such fishes that have been moved to be farmed perhaps should not be called wild caught... but i don't think anyone is going to police that aspect.

 

[Mazan]

Just reading through this thread, which I missed before. As I understood it these fish are not being farmed as such, just collected, moved and stocked in a more convenient location close to Iquitos where they will be easier and less expensive to capture. So they are being caught in the wild, but not in their natural habitat. It’s bad news as hybridisation occurs between closely related species that never would have been in contact naturally and eventually this could result in the loss of the pure species, if as seems to be the case, the hybrids are fertile and ecologically successful.