Hongsloi Red Gold Male or Female?

[MapleNeil]

Here is my main tank where I had happy success with the Viejita, which encouraged me to try this. I guess the plastic "caves" and "logs" are what give it structure, providing many different places for them to hide. The apistos get along well there even with the golden killifish and tetras, although there is only one male apisto. Maybe thats why.

 

[MacZ]

It's one way, yes. you basically half/third/quarter the tank with barriers according to the number of fish. So in your case I'd try to basically build a cross or an x of barriers.

I noticed that even when offered Apistogramma rarely use actual caves like the huts to hide but rather use overhanging wood as cover or hide in the shadow of a stone. So the caves are basically only there for spawning.

 

[MapleNeil]

I moved the definite Male to another tank, and now with just Sleeper and female in the main tank, sleeper has gone back to looking female. This is really strange.

 

[MacZ]

Can you take pictures of the fish now that they are separated?

 

[MapleNeil]

The one facing left is Female 1, the one under the oak leaf facing right is Sleeper.
The male (not pictured) is in a 5.5g hospital tank hiding under his cocohut, still looking very red and gold.

 

[MapleNeil]

I should add.. before separating the male, after rearranging the tank into 3 distinct territories, sleeper and female had a fight. After I put male into a breeding box, sleeper and female stopped fighting. But female would go close to the breeding box, possibly showing interest in male. I removed male from the tank because he seems to have either an injury or mouth fungus so I want to treat him separately. Sleeper and female are avoiding each other now.

 

[MapleNeil]

Now sleeper occasionally appraoches female, does a bit of tail slapping, and female will either stay still or swim away a few inches. Then sleeper follows her, sometimes in a way that seems threatening, but female stops and doesn't seem that concerned. then sleeper maybe wags his tail and the process repeats until they get bored and go back to their own ends of the tank. I'm not sure if this is courting behaviour or not. When Male would flirt with female, he would tail slap, but also wiggle and shudder much like my male Viejita does to the females.

 

[MacZ]

Now sleeper occasionally appraoches female, does a bit of tail slapping, and female will either stay still or swim away a few inches. Then sleeper follows her, sometimes in a way that seems threatening, but female stops and doesn't seem that concerned. then sleeper maybe wags his tail and the process repeats until they get bored and go back to their own ends of the tank. I'm not sure if this is courting behaviour or not. When Male would flirt with female, he would tail slap, but also wiggle and shudder much like my male Viejita does to the females.

Exactly what I'm seeing here, too.

 

[MapleNeil]

Here is the male in the hospital tank. Perhaps he has mouth fungus rather than a mouth injury. That could explain why the other male died, if they both have fungus. I'm treating him with malachite green. Sadly that seems to be the only fish medicine available in canada anymore.

 

[MacZ]

Ouh... I know what that is. That's bacterial. Frequent big waterchanges, fresh catappa leaves and alder cones. All you can do. But as it's on the mouth and the upper jaw is basically gone I see little chance of survival even if it should be cured of the infection. I would euthanize.

Here in the EU we also have little to no meds. Antibiotics are only available via a vet, imo a good thing, because we have enough multiresistant bacteria strains in aquaria. Otherwise we only have a limited number of working active ingredients, limiting the number of treatable things, too. The worst thing in the past years was the prohibition of almost all actually effective worm medications against gill flukes and tapeworm.
But honestly, many things are best treated without meds and nothing beats optimal conditions and regular waterchanges.

 

[MapleNeil]

Ouh... I know what that is. That's bacterial. Frequent big waterchanges, fresh catappa leaves and alder cones. All you can do. But as it's on the mouth and the upper jaw is basically gone I see little chance of survival even if it should be cured of the infection. I would euthanize.

Here in the EU we also have little to no meds. Antibiotics are only available via a vet, imo a good thing, because we have enough multiresistant bacteria strains in aquaria. Otherwise we only have a limited number of working active ingredients, limiting the number of treatable things, too. The worst thing in the past years was the prohibition of almost all actually effective worm medications against gill flukes and tapeworm.
But honestly, many things are best treated without meds and nothing beats optimal conditions and regular waterchanges.

Do you think its columnaris?
I am treating with salt now too.
I wonder what I should do for the other fish. One of them is flashing occasionally.
This was a new tank that I set up and cycled before I ordered the fish. I suppose something could have come into my tank from the plants I added. Or maybe they were so stressed from the shipping that their immunity was lowered.

 

[MacZ]

I was not thinking of columnaris but something similar of which I can't remember the name. Salt will not help with that, spare them the extra stress. Extra tannins are more of use and more than enough. Salt is also not good for the plants.

Occasional flashing is ok. Especially if they have the option to dig and chew sand, there is always a little debris that makes them scrub for a while.

Plants don't have to do anything with that. Most often bacterial infections are bacteria that are already there and only go opportunistically for individuals with compromised immune systems. They are definitely stressed and compromised from shipping.

Even if it's "just" a quarantine: Try to optimize the conditions. And make sure the tank is actually cycled. Not saying it is not, but please do a full water parameter and quality test, just to rule that out.

 

[MapleNeil]

I was not thinking of columnaris but something similar of which I can't remember the name. Salt will not help with that, spare them the extra stress. Extra tannins are more of use and more than enough. Salt is also not good for the plants.

Occasional flashing is ok. Especially if they have the option to dig and chew sand, there is always a little debris that makes them scrub for a while.

Plants don't have to do anything with that. Most often bacterial infections are bacteria that are already there and only go opportunistically for individuals with compromised immune systems. They are definitely stressed and compromised from shipping.

Even if it's "just" a quarantine: Try to optimize the conditions. And make sure the tank is actually cycled. Not saying it is not, but please do a full water parameter and quality test, just to rule that out.

Their tank is a new tank but with a filter from a cycled tank. It cycled with plants and some food in it for about two weeks before I got the fish and it was converting ammonia to nitrate and I've been testing it every day to make sure theres no ammonia or nitrite. The ph is a bit high though, 7.6. I guess the leaves haven't lowered the ph yet.

As for the hospital tank, I just put a cycled sponge filter in a clean tank. With just one fish it should be fine but I'll test it anyway.

 

[MacZ]

Their tank is a new tank but with a filter from a cycled tank. It cycled with plants and some food in it for about two weeks before I got the fish and it was converting ammonia to nitrate and I've been testing it every day to make sure theres no ammonia or nitrite. The ph is a bit high though, 7.6. I guess the leaves haven't lowered the ph yet.

As for the hospital tank, I just put a cycled sponge filter in a clean tank. With just one fish it should be fine but I'll test it anyway.

Please still do a check on both tanks. I promise I won't judge your skills as a fishkeeper, but generally when something is wrong first thing is a full test of the water parameters. What temperature are you running the tanks at?
And with a pH of 7.6 I can guarantee you your KH is too high for leaves to lower the pH. It has to be zero for botanicals to change the pH by more than 0.2.

 

[MapleNeil]

Please still do a check on both tanks. I promise I won't judge your skills as a fishkeeper, but generally when something is wrong first thing is a full test of the water parameters. What temperature are you running the tanks at?
And with a pH of 7.6 I can guarantee you your KH is too high for leaves to lower the pH. It has to be zero for botanicals to change the pH by more than 0.2.

I've only been keeping fish for a few months so I appreciate the advice. I dont think of myself as an accomplished fish keeper

I dont have a KH test kit. The water in my city is considered very soft with quite low mineral content. I have two other tanks, the one with a play sand substrate has a ph of 7.2 and the other one with inert sand dropped to 6.5 when I added leaves so I had to remove the leaves. So I expected this tank to behave the same but for some reason it isn't.

 

[MapleNeil]

I've only been keeping fish for a few months so I appreciate the advice. I dont think of myself as an accomplished fish keeper

I dont have a KH test kit. The water in my city is considered very soft with quite low mineral content. I have two other tanks, the one with a play sand substrate has a ph of 7.2 and the other one with inert sand dropped to 6.5 when I added leaves so I had to remove the leaves. So I expected this tank to behave the same but for some reason it isn't.

"Both KH and GH are around 2 in ottawa. With a CO2 concentration in equilibrium of approximately 2ppm (my experience and assumption) and a KH level of 2, pH should settle at around 7.4 as stated above. "

 

[MapleNeil]

I've only been keeping fish for a few months so I appreciate the advice. I dont think of myself as an accomplished fish keeper

I dont have a KH test kit. The water in my city is considered very soft with quite low mineral content. I have two other tanks, the one with a play sand substrate has a ph of 7.2 and the other one with inert sand dropped to 6.5 when I added leaves so I had to remove the leaves. So I expected this tank to behave the same but for some reason it isn't.

Test results:
A. Hongsloi tank:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 3ppm
pH 7.4

Hospital tank:
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0
pH 7.4

Since we have soft water right out of the tap I haven't put much thought into pH issues. How harmful is it for apistos to be in water with 7.6 ph?

 

[MapleNeil]

Test results:
A. Hongsloi tank:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 3ppm
pH 7.4

Hospital tank:
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0
pH 7.4

Since we have soft water right out of the tap I haven't put much thought into pH issues. How harmful is it for apistos to be in water with 7.6 ph?

I keep the temperature at 26C

 

[yukondog]

What is the level of nitrate in the hosp. tank?

 

[MapleNeil]

What is the level of nitrate in the hosp. tank?

I didn't test it, presumably about 0 since I filled it with tap water 2 days ago and haven't been adding much food (he only eats a few brine shrimp at a time