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Fungus and eggs

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
Howdy partners, question on fugus in a breeding tank.
I set up a breeding tank for a pair of cacatuoides using a bunch of driftwood and a couple coconut huts. Tank has been set up for a month, no ammonia or nitrites, nitrates kept low with 30% water changes every 3-4 days and some plants. The female laid some eggs under a catappa leaf but they all turned white, they're a young pair so he may still be infertile. She's now holed up under some driftwood in the back of the tank, I assume with some more eggs. The question is, will all that fungus on the driftwood and cocohuts attack the eggs? I assume that our tanks are filled with spores, loose hyphae and what not but will the excessive amount increase the likelihood of attack .Thanks for any input.
AC2.jpg
ac3.jpg
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Na, Biofilm is usually not harmfull, but the water has to have perfect condition.

What are your water parameters? Not Nitrogen compounds, Hardness and pH.
 

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
My kH and GH are both 2 with pH at 7, pH probably too high? I was hoping the leaves would drive it down but I think I’ll try some peat in a bag? Or just use a pH down liquid? The substrate probably isn’t optimal, think I should grab another 10 and start over with some sand? I had some left over eco complete from my show tank. Water temp at 80°. Thanks for the thoughts, really appreciate it, this is the first time I’ve tried to breed any fish.
 
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FishEZ

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
49
Location
Brampton, Ontario
Just my opinion, but it does not look like fungus to me. I could be wrong, but the stuff you are describing in the tank and in the photos is more like a type of algae which is in itself not going to be causing eggs to go white. I would suspect that the white eggs may be from an entirely different reason. Has the male ever fertilized eggs before? If he has not been proven, then perhaps they are unfertilized eggs which are very hard to have without fungus attacking.
 

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
Just my opinion, but it does not look like fungus to me. I could be wrong, but the stuff you are describing in the tank and in the photos is more like a type of algae which is in itself not going to be causing eggs to go white. I would suspect that the white eggs may be from an entirely different reason. Has the male ever fertilized eggs before? If he has not been proven, then perhaps they are unfertilized eggs which are very hard to have without fungus attacking.
I lean toward fungus as it proliferated in the first 2 weeks of the tanks life when it was more or less in a state of blackout, it’s actually decreased in the last few weeks. He’s definitely not proven. They are both pretty young. I’m gonna contact the breeder and ask what water parameters he kept his stock in. See how low I need to drive the pH.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
My kH and GH are both 2 with pH at 7, pH probably too high? I was hoping the leaves would drive it down but I think I’ll try some peat in a bag? Or just use a pH down liquid?

Stay clear of stuff like pH-down, you would have to constantly add that stuff with waterchanges to prevent fluctuations you don't want. Peat might help, though. Test the peat first. Measure a liter or half a liter in a glass of water. Put some peat in there for 24h in the same ratio you would use for the tank (likely only 1-2g per liter) and measure the parameters after 24h. Then you know whether you need more or less.

But what I mainly see is simply, that the tank is still new and not fully established and balanced.

The reason many people can have successful spawns in relatively new tanks is that they keep blackwater species of Apistogramma which need so low TDS, EC and pH, that the environment in those tanks is pretty much devoid of bacteria and fungi.

A. cacatuoides is not a blackwater species and you also have a domestic strain, so they should actually be able to successfully spawn in GH and KH of 10 and a pH of 8 if need be.

Still if you can get your paramaters to at least a pH of 6.5 this might be helpful, yet.

The substrate probably isn’t optimal, think I should grab another 10 and start over with some sand?
If you are aware and willing to basically start from scratch, yes.

Also you can still optimize with more floating plants and some twigs and branches, that might also help making the fish absolutely comfortable.

About the fishes age: Possible this has influence, but I see the impact coming mostly from them being inexperienced in caring for the eggs.

What are you feeding?
 

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
Stay clear of stuff like pH-down, you would have to constantly add that stuff with waterchanges to prevent fluctuations you don't want. Peat might help, though. Test the peat first. Measure a liter or half a liter in a glass of water. Put some peat in there for 24h in the same ratio you would use for the tank (likely only 1-2g per liter) and measure the parameters after 24h. Then you know whether you need more or less.

But what I mainly see is simply, that the tank is still new and not fully established and balanced.

The reason many people can have successful spawns in relatively new tanks is that they keep blackwater species of Apistogramma which need so low TDS, EC and pH, that the environment in those tanks is pretty much devoid of bacteria and fungi.

A. cacatuoides is not a blackwater species and you also have a domestic strain, so they should actually be able to successfully spawn in GH and KH of 10 and a pH of 8 if need be.

Still if you can get your paramaters to at least a pH of 6.5 this might be helpful, yet.


If you are aware and willing to basically start from scratch, yes.

Also you can still optimize with more floating plants and some twigs and branches, that might also help making the fish absolutely comfortable.

About the fishes age: Possible this has influence, but I see the impact coming mostly from them being inexperienced in caring for the eggs.

What are you feeding?
Frozen brine shrimp and frozen blood worms, they won’t touch mini pellets..
I just got a brine shrimp hatchery, excited to start feeding my other tanks with live food as well.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Frozen brine shrimp and frozen blood worms, they won’t touch mini pellets..
I just got a brine shrimp hatchery, excited to start feeding my other tanks with live food as well.

Maybe expand the variety so you can cut down on the bloodworms, artemia are the more balanced food, I would add white mosquito larvae and daphnia to the menu.

Pellets can be very different. My A. hongsloi ignores the minis I feed my tetras and pencils, but loves his bug bites. But I only feed dried food once a week.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,366
All of my apisto (honglsoi and cockatoo) love bug bites. I also feed them a bit of nls which has garlic and i tried north bug bites (which has garlic). They are not too fond of garlic.
 

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
Ok, after the female disappearing into a cave in the back of the tank for a week she’s got fry with her.. she’s chasing the male off pretty aggressively. Do you guys remove the male? I have a home for him in a heavily planted 20L with dozen cardinals and 3 Otos.
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50F8B8FC-C603-42AD-B00B-68D775DA2297.jpeg
 
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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,958
Location
Germany
Do you guys remove the male?
In a 20 it is best to have the option to separate them at any given point. Also for the other way round, in case she loses the fry...

with dozen cardinals
... which is very likely with those tankmates.

Because as soon as she is not in breeding mode anymore the tables will turn and he will chase her until she is ready to spawn again.
 

SoundHunter

New Member
Messages
8
7579B7D0-19A0-43F0-ADAF-D0C51CE3978A.jpeg

She’s chilled a little and the Male gets the hint, so less fighting. With so many hiding spots I’m not able to catch the male without trashing the tank so I’m going to leave him for now. Got the next go around I’m thinking 20L with space to put a divider in without messing up the tank.
I started Live BBS and Hikari first bites. There’s tons of Java moss in the tank for them to forage through. Thanks for the reply’s everyone.
 

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