Electric Blue Rams fighting.

[ariverofsongs]

Hi all.

I have had my first chichilids 2 beautiful electric blue rams for a few weeks now. I was hoping for a male female pair but they are maybe too young and I know it's difficult to determine. Only in the last couple of days they have become very territorial and will nip at each other when in eyesight.

My tank is 56l with 3 ottocinculus 5 ammano shrimp and 6 kubotai rasboras. I recently added an airstone and the biggest ram is very territorial over it.

I would love some help for if I need to do anything about the fighting and if anyone is able to determine sex more than I can as it has been hard to find resources online. Small ram called spike is right in the pics (excpet 2 when they are above) and the larger one Baphomet is on the left and with the airstone. Thanks.

 

[MacZ]

There's no nice way to say this, so I'll be blunt. Please don't take this personal, you have been poorly advised when setting up the whole tank. (and no, it's not the gravel colour, that's just taste. It's the grain size.)

Your tank is simply too small for any kind of dwarf cichlid unless one keeps them by themselves and has a second tank to separate them at any given time.

While M. ramirezi are still the most forgiving, they also should be separated if necessary.

Then to the basics:
The breed you have is domestic and has a fixed colour pattern. Wild coloured M. ramirezi communicaty by changing colours. That way they reduce and avoid a lot of aggression. These domestic fish are not able to do that, hence they are much more aggressive.
Secondly, these fish can not be sexed by colouration anymore, only by behaviour and if matured the fins.

These fish prefer sand substrate, their scientific name literally means "small earth eater". They chew through sand and sift food particles from it.

Now for the behaviour in general... cichlids are territorial. This has to be managed in captivity, as the weaker individuals can't just get out of the way of the dominant ones. Especially not in such a small tank. So either the tank is structured well with sight breaks in the form of wood or rocks or the fish have to be separated.

Additionally most south american dwarf cichlids don't form pairs permanently and immediately. So even if your fish are a male and a female there is no quarantee, they will do well together.

From what you say about the rest of the tank I'd return both of them and then research these fish throroughly before trying again with that species. And if you want to keep them it will be a lot of work and some money you have to put into this as soon as possible.
Your choice, but be aware, it's at least getting different substrate and lots of new decorations and completely redoing the tank interior, and possibly you'll still need a second tank.

 

[ariverofsongs]

There's no nice way to say this, so I'll be blunt. Please don't take this personal, you have been poorly advised when setting up the whole tank. (and no, it's not the gravel colour, that's just taste. It's the grain size.)

Your tank is simply too small for any kind of dwarf cichlid unless one keeps them by themselves and has a second tank to separate them at any given time.

While M. ramirezi are still the most forgiving, they also should be separated if necessary.

Then to the basics:
The breed you have is domestic and has a fixed colour pattern. Wild coloured M. ramirezi communicaty by changing colours. That way they reduce and avoid a lot of aggression. These domestic fish are not able to do that, hence they are much more aggressive.
Secondly, these fish can not be sexed by colouration anymore, only by behaviour and if matured the fins.

These fish prefer sand substrate, their scientific name literally means "small earth eater". They chew through sand and sift food particles from it.

Now for the behaviour in general... cichlids are territorial. This has to be managed in captivity, as the weaker individuals can't just get out of the way of the dominant ones. Especially not in such a small tank. So either the tank is structured well with sight breaks in the form of wood or rocks or the fish have to be separated.

Additionally most south american dwarf cichlids don't form pairs permanently and immediately. So even if your fish are a male and a female there is no quarantee, they will do well together.

From what you say about the rest of the tank I'd return both of them and then research these fish throroughly before trying again with that species. And if you want to keep them it will be a lot of work and some money you have to put into this as soon as possible.
Your choice, but be aware, it's at least getting different substrate and lots of new decorations and completely redoing the tank interior, and possibly you'll still need a second tank.

Hi thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I will be redoing the whole tank and upgrading size as soon as I can. Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I have to research to see if I am able to return as I'm not sure.

 

[MacZ]

Hi thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I will be redoing the whole tank and upgrading size as soon as I can. Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I have to research to see if I am able to return as I'm not sure.

My pleasure. Call the shop, say you have to return the fish becuse you completely underestimated them. But don't expect a refund.

In any case, you have at most a month before one of the two is a goner.

 

[ariverofsongs]

My pleasure. Call the shop, say you have to return the fish becuse you completely underestimated them. But don't expect a refund.

In any case, you have at most a month before one of the two is a goner.

Thanks again. I think my best bet is getting them to a new home with someone else. If I were able to change my set up (which I have been wanting to do) would one be able to stay instead of giving them both up? Just incase I can't find a home for them both. Thanks

 

[MacZ]

Yes, keeping one single is possible. Not ideal but possible. Truly appropriate would be a group of 6-8 in a 150-200cm tank.

 

[ariverofsongs]

Yes, keeping one single is possible. Not ideal but possible. Truly appropriate would be a group of 6-8 in a 150-200cm tank.

Thanks. Luckily I believe I have managed to find them a lovely new home.

 

[MacZ]

Excellent!

It is a very sad reality that people get sold these fish with minimal or no research in advance because the shops just have to sell, sell, sell.
And dwarf cichlids of all sorts a wonderful and fascinating fish but they require a tank tailored to their needs otherwise the quickly find their demise.

 

[ariverofsongs]

Excellent!

It is a very sad reality that people get sold these fish with minimal or no research in advance because the shops just have to sell, sell, sell.
And dwarf cichlids of all sorts a wonderful and fascinating fish but they require a tank tailored to their needs otherwise the quickly find their

 

[ariverofsongs]

Definitely. I think they are awesome and in the future when I have the ability for a better setup for them I can try again as a long term goal.

 

[MacZ]

You're definitely lucky: Most tap water in Scotland is soft. That's ideal.

 

[anewbie]

One concern i have is that the rams really should be kept around 82 and the otto and kubotai won't much like the warmer temps.

 

[MacZ]

One concern i have is that the rams really should be kept around 82 and the otto and kubotai won't much like the warmer temps.

It should be rather 29°C than just about 27°C, but considering how long the list of factors is/was that simply slipped through. As the OP has found a new home for them that doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I forgot to mention that I will be redoing the whole tank and upgrading size as soon as I can. Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I have to research to see if I am able to return as I'm not sure.

Have a look at Bob Wiltshire's (@apistobob) <"web pages"> on <"dwarf cichlid care">, they are full good advice.

I'm a huge fan of planted tanks, they make fish keeping a lot easier, and <"I've developed a technique"> where you use the growth and health of a floating plant as an indication of the <"nutrient status of your tank">.

Have a look at <"Seasoned Tank Time"> as well.

cheers Darrel