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Dicrossus filamentosus - sexing and advice?

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but I've been keeping fish for about 6 months and I have now set up a Rio Negro blackwater biotope tank. At the moment this is quite small (120 litres / 32 US gallons) but it is really a prototype to try out ideas and water chemistry for a much bigger 8' tank that I am planning.

I recently added two Dicrossus filamentosus to this tank; they've been in a week and seem to be doing OK.
I would have bought a few more but unfortunately these were the last ones in the shop. They are very small (less than an inch long). It looks like there are quite a few people on this forum who have kept these fish, so I'm hoping someone can offer some advice.

When I got these two fish I couldn't tell them apart, but now I can see distinct differences, as shown in the attached pictures. I'm not sure if the differences are mood or dominance-related (one of them looks quite faded out in one pic, but was back to normal moments later). Also, I'm not sure what sex they are, and maybe they are maturing at different rates or starting to show sex differences?

The fish are a right pair of characters. Sometimes they ignore each other completely at opposite ends of the tank, sometimes they hang around together quite peacefully, and sometimes they interact with rapid little non-contact chases and lunges. The latter makes me think they might both be male.

Water parameters in this blackwater tank are stable at:
Temp 27-28C, pH 6.4, KH 0.5, GH 1, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, TDS <60.
Tank mates are 10 marble hatchets, 5 Petitella georgiae tetras and 1 baby L244 pleco.

Is it possible to tell the sex of the Dicrossus yet? What should I be looking for? They're both juveniles so no red fins or lyretails yet.

Would it be a good idea to try and get some more, or should I just stick with these two?

Many thanks for your help!

Regards,
Paul
 

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Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
At this size they are still juveniles that show no sexual differences. Right now you have 2 options: 1) wait a couple of months to see if any secondary sexual characteristics appear; 2) euthanize, dissect, and examine for ovaries or testes. I know what I'd do. (Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself!);)

Thanks Mike - I'll put the scalpel and microscope aside for now ;) and just keep an eye on them as they develop.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
And if you run across more, get some. Checkerboards are not always easy to find in shops, and often weak and stressed from transport. Healthy ones are always in demand and I doubt you'll have trouble re-homing any extras you end up with. 32 gal is easily big enough for 2 males (maybe more) plus several females.
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
Great - many thanks for the advice. I'll try and track down a few more over the next couple of weeks. :)
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
I have located a shop with both D.filamentosus and D.maculatus, about an hour away but close enough for me to visit this weekend.

The D.filamentosus are nearly 2" long, so quite a bit bigger than my existing two but according to the shop owner they are not old enough to identify their sex.

Any thoughts on whether I would be OK adding two of these to join the two small ones in my 120L/32gal tank? Or would there be trouble?

Many thanks :)
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
A think there may have been a miscommunication with the shop owner. A 2" filamentosus is an adult and should be easily sexable. D. maculatus get bigger, so I'm guessing he meant those fish were not yet sexable (although 2" is good size for a female mac). Hmmm ... i wonder if maybe his "macs" are actually a Crenicara, like C. punctulata? Guess you'll find out this weekend.
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
Thanks :) I was puzzled by that as well. As you say, I'll find out when I see them myself!
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
If the filamentosus do turn out to be sexable, can you suggest what combination I should get to go with my existing two young ones?
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
So, apologies for the picture quality but the tank lights are still off for now. Here are the 4 new guys in my Tank 3.

It's interesting that within 2 minutes of being netted in, they had met up with one of my existing fish, and within another couple of minutes all 6 were together. We'll have to see if they keep shoaling peacefully - they are Cichlids, after all!

Hopefully some better pics in due course when the lights are back on.

Now to try and feed them up and see which sexes I have in a few months time :)
 

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Messages
115
Location
Seattle Washington
Very cool! They look very happy and settled in well, Kinda reminds me when I had these,,, and if I remember right the females have red ventrical fins and red behind the gills. Females were extremely difficult to locate as well and this was only 2 years ago.
I checked every fish store I could think of and visited these in-person armed with my 20 L.E.D. flashlight!! Not one of the clerks or even the stores' owners knew how to sex these and most were adult fish!
Good luck and how they spawn for you but you'll need to drop the PH to around 5.0!
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
Thanks!

All 6 are still doing well and growing, though I guess it will still be a while before I can sex them. I've read that the red fins on females don't occur until after their first brood, so with juveniles like these they wouldn't be present.

I don't see any real aggression between them, even though they are in a relatively small and busy tank. Sometimes they seem to swim together in groups and other times do their own thing.

The smallest one 'Pawn' has grown but is still smaller than the rest; the others are all about the same size as each other.

Latest addition to this tank is another L244 pleco, but I'm about to get a new 4-foot tank and once that's cycled I will then move the plecos and Rummies out of here into that.
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
A month or so on from my last post, and one of my little Dicrossus is starting to show what I think might be some sexual dimorphism. Is this one a boy?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1400354296.339718.jpg


Sorry about the pic quality and the algae - I've scraped that off now!
 

Cooder

Member
Messages
124
Location
Yeppoon, Queensland, Aus
Im thinking about grabbing a pair or 2 of D. filamentosus. Would 2 pairs work in a 75 liter, wide, 2 ft tank? according to my quick search on the net they are "peaceful", but are males territorial?
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
They are usually unsexable at the size you buy them. The competitions between males are more ritual than violent. Mine often all swim around together quite happily. They are in a 120 litre Juwel Lido which has a footprint about 2' x 15" (but is tall, which makes no difference to the Dicrossus).
I'd say you would be fine with 4 to 6 fish :)
 

Cooder

Member
Messages
124
Location
Yeppoon, Queensland, Aus
Oh cool. My tank is about 2' x 15'' aswell, but half as high, haha. The guy i am buying them off says they have bred for him before, but being in shop had never bothered to to try raise fry.
He also said they are from a German shipment, and wasnt sure if they are wild. Is there German/European breeders that export F1 fish or are they as hard to reproduce (at least commercially) as im thinking they are. (these pairs are also expensive, no surprise for Australia though)
 

Mol_PMB

Active Member
Messages
252
Mine still aren't fully grown, sounds like the ones you are getting will be. They should still be fine in that size :)

I am not aware of any commercial breeding of these. They tend to come in as a 'bycatch' with wild cardinal tetras and there are plenty to go around because not many people keep them. Wild juveniles sell for about £4 each here so there's not a lot of cash to be made from breeding them, and it's apparently hard to raise the young.

The economics may be different down under!
 

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