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Dicrossus 420 L

anewbie

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1,325
Unusual i suppose but in my non-black water tank i had a Echinodorus bleheri struggle for literally two years and then suddenly decide it was time to grow and took off like a rocket. It was in an aquarium that everything else grew well so i'm not sure why it struggled and what trigger it into growing but the purpose of this note is just to remind you that plants work in mysterious ways and sometime takes a while to adjust to their new environment.
 

Mazan

Active Member
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281
I have some Echinodorus (not sure what species but they are basic green ones, but not the really big ones) that I planted in a tank with sand substrate, quite low light (often mostly covered with floating plants and stained with Indian almond leaves, so pretty dark, though not technically a blackwater setup). I planted them as tiny offshoots from another in a different tank and didn't expect them to do very well, but they are thriving and have grown bigger than the parent plant! The tank is lightly stocked and I occasionally add NPK as otherwise nitrates are 0.
 

Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Green leaves out, new leaves in.

IMG_E1101.JPG


I'm still looking for new driftwoods and roots.

Dicrossus are starting to color up (brownish and greenish parts thru body) and one of them is showing that continuous bodyline. Think it's the dominant male, right?
IMG_1052.JPG
IMG_1054.JPG
IMG_1056.JPG
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
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2,877
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Germany
Dicrossus are starting to color up (brownish and greenish parts thru body) and one of them is showing that continuous bodyline. Think it's the dominant male, right?
Nope, nit necessarily. The stripe shows up as a sign of aggression and dominance, yes, but females also show it. Patience. ;)

I only just realice how rough your substrater is... your luck Dicrossus don't chew sand like Apistogramma but pick up food particles here and there. Otherwise I might have advised replacement.
 

Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
I only just realice how rough your substrater is... your luck Dicrossus don't chew sand like Apistogramma but pick up food particles here and there. Otherwise I might have advised replacement.
Yes it is... I was planing to change it for river sand if I'd chosen the panduro pair, but prefered to keep it for the dicrossus. When I had my first dicrossus, back to 10's, I realized that them don't chew like geophagus or apistogrammas, so it was a calculated risk with this tank. Well, at least that's what I tought... Do you think I should change it now?

I usualy prefer river sand for the natural look of it, but this tank was already running with this substrate.
 

MacZ

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2,877
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Germany
Do you think I should change it now?
Going by principles: Yes. A fine (0.2-0.5mm) sand would for sure be better, as rougher substrate and leaf litter-mulm are almost a guarantee for pockets of foulness in the substrate. On the other hand it's a stressful thing for the fish and can be (doesn't have to) very messy. Your call. I'd probably do it rather sooner than later.
 

Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Going by principles: Yes. A fine (0.2-0.5mm) sand would for sure be better, as rougher substrate and leaf litter-mulm are almost a guarantee for pockets of foulness in the substrate. On the other hand it's a stressful thing for the fish and can be (doesn't have to) very messy. Your call. I'd probably do it rather sooner than later.
Ok!

I have a second tank (90cm x 40cm x 30cm) that is in stand by right now. I can use it as a temporary home for the fishes.

Will work on that soon, I promise :)

Again, thank you very much for your help Mac!
 

Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Oh, just one more question: How much I should wait to replace the fishes back in the tank after the substrate change? Considering that I'll keep the rocks and the driftwoods. I think it helps with the water parameters, doesn't it?
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
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2,877
Location
Germany
How much I should wait to replace the fishes back in the tank after the substrate change? Considering that I'll keep the rocks and the driftwoods. I think it helps with the water parameters, doesn't it?
As long as you keep the filter running (just hook it up to the other tank or to a bucket) and add humic substances and leaf litter back to the tank too, just make sure the water is up to temperature and you can add the fish back in basically right after exchanging the substrate. Check TDS/EC and pH and if everything fits the temporary tank move them right back. If you want you can also wait 24 hours.
 

Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Hi.

Just updating:
I bought 10 more Paracheirodon axeroldi, 10 Hemigrammus bleheri and 6 Carnegiella strigata. I'll buy 5 more Carnegiellas next friday. Also discovery some snail species, probably came with the plants.

The Echinodorus doesn't look so well. I'm adding liquid fertilizer weekly, but seems to be not enough.

The river sand are not in the tank yet, but i'm working on it.

I'm also searching for floating plants and more branches to offer more cover.

IMG_E1292.JPG

PXWC9183.JPG


A question: Would a single A. sp. tefe male work with the Dicrossus? I've just found a website selling them ant wonder if it would be a reasonable choice mix this two species.

Thanks in advence.
 
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Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Hello.

I've been helping my sister move into her new house, so I haven't had a lot of time to change substrate. However, I changed the layout a little. added some more driftwoods and branches.

IMG_E2421.JPG


My pH is currently at 6.8. I'm trying to make this value lower, does anyone have any tips? Seems like the leaf litter and the dfritwoods are not enough.

Thanks.
 
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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,877
Location
Germany
My pH is currently at 6.8. I'm trying to make this value lower, does anyone have any tips? Seems like the leaf litter and the dfritwoods are not enough.
What is your KH again? If you have measurable KH botanicals only push it down a bit, but not significantly.
At a KH of 2 you can expect wood and leaves to only impact the pH by maybe 0.5 points downwards. At really low KH (below detection) it takes a lot of leaf litter and some weeks/months time and you end up at an around 5-ish pH. That's the method I use. My sourcewater (RO) has a TDS of 5mg/l, right out of the unit, lots of humic substances added extra and lots of rotting leaves provide the acidity.
As you are running a display tank (breeding will not be working in this due to the other fish) you can forget about using acids to lower pH. Absolutely not worth it.
I also think peat is maybe hard to get where you live or quite expensive so that also won't do it.
 
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Gaisller

Member
Messages
70
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Updating: probably my dicrossus are 1 male and 4 females.

Some pics below.

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IMG_E3386.JPG


IMG_2279.JPG


Also, I'm starting to have a real snail issue in my tank... There are any fish that eat their eggs? Is there anything else I can do to prevent them from reproducing?
 

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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,877
Location
Germany
There are any fish that eat their eggs?
None that would fit in with your other stock.

Is there anything else I can do to prevent them from reproducing?
Usually the deal would be "feed less". But as you have a tank with leaf litter and the like.... Pick them off one by one whenever they are in reach. It took me a few months of just taking them out manually every day for 5-10min but at one point I just noticed there were none left to remove and I was surprised I did it. Just be tenacious.

The fish on the pictures is for sure a male. Nice one! And the others have round caudals?
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Also, I'm starting to have a real snail issue in my tank... There are any fish that eat their eggs? Is there anything else I can do to prevent them from reproducing?
Not biotope correct and might not work but zebra loaches will eat snails; they are a fairly shy fish and so i don't know how they would interact with the drisco; it would be an experiment; also you would need a group of at least 6. Typically they are found in water a bit higher ph but otherwise pretty pure.
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assassin snails; but having had them for a while they are almost as bad as non-assassin snails; also i'm not sure if they are native to blackwater.
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Mind you I'm not suggesting or recommending either of these solutions but just noting they do exist.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,877
Location
Germany
Not biotope correct and might not work but zebra loaches will eat snails; they are a fairly shy fish and so i don't know how they would interact with the drisco; it would be an experiment; also you would need a group of at least 6. Typically they are found in water a bit higher ph but otherwise pretty pure.
Those with Dicrossus... not a good idea. The loaches grow bigger than the cichlids. And are "armed" with the under-eye thorns...
assassin snails; but having had them for a while they are almost as bad as non-assassin snails; also i'm not sure if they are native to blackwater.
They can live in softwater but actual blackwater kills them off. They would be the only logical choice if one chooses to use any animals against pest snails. I'd get only 2. Sounds few. It is. They are not supposed to eradicate the others, but keep them down. In addition to picking them by hand they are a good support.
 

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