D.C. Keeping Parameters

[Underhill]

Hi,
Good to be here! I have been perusing the forum for a little while and have a question. In the past, I have kept several types of S.A. Dwarf Cichlids with varying levels of success. I have had kept a couple types of apistos, n. anomalas, m. ramirezis with very little success and Laetacara Dorsigeras with considerable success (several batches of fry raised). I may have jumped into keeping these fish a little early since I had just gotten back into fishkeeping after a long break. I have hard and fairly alkaline water here in central Texas.
I was a little discouraged by the trouble I had with many of these fish. This was especially true with the Rams (which are my favorite). Some of this must be do to the fact that the water in my several tanks was maybe not ideal. I may have had somewhat high nitrite, ammonia levels at times. However, these tanks were heavily planted and I never had any problems keeping any other fish (tetras, livebearers, angels). I know that many dwarf cichlids are more susceptable to problems in these areas. Again, the water here is approx. gh 10, kh 10, ph 7.3.
I have one 10gpd R/O filter but would like to keep fish in a couple of larger tanks including a 37 gallon show tank and a 75 gallon. These tanks would again be well-planted and the toxic substances above minimized by the plants and better filtration. So, can these sensitive softwater apisto's and other dwarf cichlids be kept in my water without upgrading R/O. To breed I would move pairs to smaller tanks and use mainly R/O water cut with tap, as necessary. Sorry this post is so long, but I wanted to give enough info to get some advice. Thanks for all the help you've given me already!
Jack

 

[Neil]

Underhill,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I think that you will find that most Dwarf Cichlids will benefit from the use of RO. If you need to keep these species in a smaller tank to adequately deal with appropriate water changes of RO water, than I would say, do so. Especially rams! They not only are sensative to nitrate but also hardness. Nannacara are a little more tolerant, but are much happier in a "soft" water tank. Anything but very minor spikes of nitrite and ammonia is something no fish, let alone any Dwarf Cichlids should be exposed to. Water changes and effective biological filtration should never be replaced by the assumption that plants will take care of the nitrification process.
A 10g/day unit should be more than enough to take care of very regular water changes for a couple of tanks. If you collect 10g/day of RO, then you can do 70g. of water changes/week. 50% water changes weekly is great and should take care of all of the issues discussed above.
Neil

 

[Underhill]

R/O, Nitrate, Nitrite

Thanks for the reply and great advice. This does raise another question that I have. I know that both nitrite and ammonia are highly toxic to all fish and plan to have adequate bio filtration, weekly 50% water changes and heavily planted tanks. You mentioned sensitivity to nitrate in your post. Many of those who keep heavily planted aquaria add nitrate to their tanks as supplemental ferilizer. These additions are rapidly consumed by the plants and kept in small amounts. I thought that nitrate in these small 5-10ppm were not harmful for even sensitive fish like rams. I have confessed to struggling in the past with nitrite and ammonia levels due to inexperience but, am I now to eliminate nitrate, as well? Also, I'm concerned about the amount of water I would be wasting by continually running my r/o unit. I can only get about 7 gpd in reality due to water pressure and have considered purchasing a booster pump. This still produces a significant amount of waste water in an area that is currently, and often, under water restrictions. If these sensitive and generally soft water fish are kept in an environment that is clean, nitrite and ammonia (other toxins, of course) free, and are provided with frequent water changes, can they survive in water that is hard? I would definitely use r/o water to acclimate and breed all fish in smaller tanks. Thank you again for your help.
Jack

 

[aspen]

ime nitrate levels below 20 ppm are fine for dwarfs. but amm and nitrite are definately to be avoided.

i would not endeavour to keep amazon dwarfs in very hard water, it doesn't seem to be good for them. how hard are we talking here? there are african dwarfs, maybe it would be better to match the fish to your water?

don't be discouraged by your problems with rams. if you can vary your sources, you will likely find some are hardier than others. don't forget quarentine.

rick

 

[Underhill]

Rick,
Thanks for the reply. I would definately be looking to maintain nitrates well below 20ppm. Probably more like 5-10ppm. Also, I understand that nitrite and ammonia should be kept at or very near 0 at all times. Your advice about the quarantine tank is of course, very important as I have added impulse buys (including wild rams) to established community planted tanks only to have all residents infested with parasites etc...
My tap, after outgassing, parameters are around kh 6, gh, 8 and ph of 7.3. Not optimal for soft water fish, I know. But, I hate to miss out on keeping these great species of fish. Again, I would be using a small r/o filter to acclimate (in quarantine) fish previously kept in r/o or soft water. I plan to slowly acclimate them to very clean tap water and move them to a 75 gallon planted tank. This tank should be great for them other than the hardness factor. The ph drops with CO2 to around 6.6, however, from my understanding this isn't as important as the hardness of the water. Is this accurate? What do you guys think? Thanks again for the great advice!
Jack

 

[aspen]

i use my tap (gh 8, kh 4, ph 7.8) for general fishkeeping and all my s/a species are fine in it. i thought you meant HARD!! like gh 25, kh 18 ph 8.4. i would go for it. breeding is another story.

rick

 

[Underhill]

Rick,
Good news. I new the problem was likely my fault. That's what happens when you get back into fishkeeping after several years and go straight for sensitive species and provide less than ideal conditions. I should be much better off this time around. By the way, what types of dwarfs have you / are you keeping? Do you think its necessary to slowly acclimate new fish to my tap conditions by gradually adding more and more tap (less and less r/o) to the quarantine tank. Seems like it would be beneficial, at least. There are a couple of sources for apistos and other dwarfs near me and I know that one of them keeps all these fish in very soft, r/o water. Not sure about the other but, I think that this approach would allow me to slowly adjust them to accept life in my other tanks.
:wink: --This guy looks like a smiley face that's just been hit in the side of the head with a brick. And I think I know who did it! -- :twisted:

 

[aspen]

>>'I new the problem was likely my fault.'

not necessarily... what i was getting at was, that some fish come with diseases that will allow the fish to live for a while, then die. i have had some trouble as well, but i give all new fish a met treatment, and i have been much more successful.

rick

 

[Underhill]

What type of treatment is this? Just quarantine or, do you medicate all fish in to prevent the chance of any problems? If so, what type of medications? What types of dwarfs have you kept thus far? Thanks.
Jack