If he is using that hatchery from shrimp direct they are very efficient. I could easily get plenty of bbs a day when i was raising my angel frys - i can't give an exact % but i believe it was extremely high because i kept using less and less eggs (the scoup that comes with it is like 1/8 or 1/16 a teaspoon and i would only fill it 1/4 of the way because that produced plenty for 2 1/2 days after which i needed a fresh batch. It also does a great job of sep shrimp from eggs so you don't have to muck with straining them.
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Camera to see if apistos have eggs
- Thread starter MapleNeil
- Start date
Ben Rhau
Apisto Club
- Messages
- 568
- Location
- San Francisco
Yes, they are from Brine Shrimp Direct. I think the quality of the cysts makes the biggest difference. My tap water is slightly alkaline, and I use 25g/L salt. I have a simple reptile incandescent lamp to keep the temperature at least 80F. Nothing unusual. If I fill the scoop up to about 1/4 volume, I collect all the BBS between 14 and 19 hours, store what i don't need in the fridge, repeat every 3 days.
So let's say I put that one scoop of eggs and get half a scoop of real live brine shrimp. Is that enough for a meal for 80 fry?
Ben Rhau
Apisto Club
- Messages
- 568
- Location
- San Francisco
At my hatch rate, 1/4 scoop of eggs gives me enough BBS to feed 3 tanks of various adult and juvenile fish (as a supplement to frozen food). You can't exactly calculate in advance, so after the first time you can adjust up or down. What I recommend is target feeding the fry and seeing what they can eat in 10 mins without too much waste. You'll do that probably 3 times a day, at least. If for whatever reason I don't have enough, I just make sure to feed the fry first, since adult fish are able to take other foods.
Won't Microworms work for at least the first few days/weeks? With those you don't need to keep hatching them every day, they are just ready to feed provided the culture is already going. Currently, I have some A. Borelli fry that left the cave about a week ago and they seem to be doing fine so far with the with them, though this is my first attempt, so I can't say that it works for me for sure yet. I suppose that this might vary by species too, larger fry could respond to food as tiny as Microworms less readily.
As a reference in my case i was feeding baby angles - approx 45 frys for 3 weeks 3 to 5 times a day. I was unsure how useful the bbs would be if refrig so i used all the ones i hatched for 2 days and then rehatched (under the presumption that 48 hours was the useful life of the bbs with regards to nutrition) and i found well under 1/4 of a scoup (I'd restimate 1/8 of less) was plenty for my needs but as @Ben Rhau said adjust per need. My understanding is vin. eel are the best with regards to surving in the tank and has the advantage of being smaller (for smaller frys); but i've never dealt with them so i have no clue on hatching. I've heard mix reports on microworms and likewise i have not messed with them - i went with the bbs since it was easy and my only two concerns are they are too large for some frys i will be mucking with next year and short shelf life - but a lot of folks say just stick in the fridge and they will be good for a few more days.
Ben Rhau
Apisto Club
- Messages
- 568
- Location
- San Francisco
Microworms are useful, especially if the fry don’t take BBS right away. But they aren’t nearly as nutritious as BBS. I culture both. My pygmy cories, pencil fish and amano shrimp all take microworms.
After reading your description I can pinpoint those two factors. The eggs I had were medium segment, nothing special but also no rubbish and my tap is quite soft and slightly acidic from the faucer already. Maybe also the temperature, but that is hard to tell in hindsight. Since I switched to the air powered hatchery I also stepped up with quality of the raw materials. I'll definitely get the info to said friend who "inherited" the dish. (btw. same model is sold here under the oh-so-creative brand name "Hobby".) Looking forward to see if tweaking the factors gives better results.
I don't even need brine shrimp for fry.
It's for my pencils and cardinals.Well you certainly have picky cardinals. Mine would be happy to eat my fingers if i would let them....After reading your description I can pinpoint those two factors. The eggs I had were medium segment, nothing special but also no rubbish and my tap is quite soft and slightly acidic from the faucer already. Maybe also the temperature, but that is hard to tell in hindsight. Since I switched to the air powered hatchery I also stepped up with quality of the raw materials. I'll definitely get the info to said friend who "inherited" the dish. (btw. same model is sold here under the oh-so-creative brand name "Hobby".) Looking forward to see if tweaking the factors gives better results.
I don't even need brine shrimp for fry.
No, they are all but picky, it's not at all because they won't eat anything else. Only got two cardinal retirees left. But I stopped feeding trash dried food with fish meal and grains. So I switched to high end dry foods, live and frozen foods and the BBS are mostly intended for the pencilfish, the cardinals surely go for them too.
You know this is a bit off topic but i wonder if there has been formal study as to the effect on longevity and health of the fish 'trash' food has vs non 'trash' food. I personally feed a large variety but avoid the hassle of live food unless i am feeding frys - and my variety include some higher quality food (northfin, omega-one, nls and some lower quality foods tetra, warden, fluval bug bites). I know what the fishes prefer but not what has the most effect on health. I will state openly that my angels will go after tetra flakes (a food i stopped feeding them for 4 months) over the various northfin foods i put in at the same time any day of the week. That doesn't mean it is good for them but they sure do like em.
I try to avoid starches and sugars in fish food, also fish meal, all of these are pretty much fillers. Flake food has led to bloat in my fish, making it hard for them to not float to the surface. Since I stopped feeding flakes that has not happened anymore.
Except Tetra and Fluval none of the brands you named are available here. I prefer certain foods by Sera and by Söll (The latter is also sold as a store brand at a chain store for less than the original. Same stuff, different packaging.) that mainly contain insects and crustaceans and a smaller amount of rather fiber rich veggies. Bug Bites are relatively ok, but not optimal either.
There have been few studies that were not financed by manufacturers like Tetra, that's true.
I'm going mostly by the tipps I get from a zookeeper I know and many beeders and collectors.
Also... you might not believe it, since I switched to mostly frozen and live foods the food costs are cut down to maybe 10 bucks every three months. Especially breeding the live foods myself is a major factor. Artemia, Cyclops and Daphnia for less. Paid off already to invest a little more once.
Except Tetra and Fluval none of the brands you named are available here. I prefer certain foods by Sera and by Söll (The latter is also sold as a store brand at a chain store for less than the original. Same stuff, different packaging.) that mainly contain insects and crustaceans and a smaller amount of rather fiber rich veggies. Bug Bites are relatively ok, but not optimal either.
There have been few studies that were not financed by manufacturers like Tetra, that's true.
I'm going mostly by the tipps I get from a zookeeper I know and many beeders and collectors.
Also... you might not believe it, since I switched to mostly frozen and live foods the food costs are cut down to maybe 10 bucks every three months. Especially breeding the live foods myself is a major factor. Artemia, Cyclops and Daphnia for less. Paid off already to invest a little more once.
Just an fyi northfin is a canadian food that is suppose to be almost no filler and is rather expensive - i purchased a little of it as an experiment to see if the fishes would eat it but it has been difficult for me to convince them of such. fluval bug bite might not be so bad and certainly all the cichlid are quite eager to eat it before all else but it is not cheapest. Sera is quite cheap over here and i always thought it was on par with tetra but less favored by the fishes. Spirlina spectrum is highly regarded by others but to me reads as all fillers - still i only feed it to the guppies and swordtails and they are quite eager fo rit. Actually looking at the bug bite ingrediants as long as black fly larva is good for the fishes it seems to have almost no fillers so might actually be ok. Oh NLS is a food that is actually seems to have very little filler beyond wheat flour.
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I'm not sure i follow your live food comment - i found hatching bbs on a regular basis rather time annoying. i can't comment on the cost as i never really measured it - but the other foods (artemia, cyclops and daphina - i have no clue on effort level to raise). You mentioned cost of $10 but of course effort is also a cost that should not be ignored.
Good to know.
Indeed, bug bites have no obvious fillers. Insect meal is a good thing, I'm not so sure about the salmon they use though. Sera is unbelievably cheap here. It's produced less than 100km from where I live. But with them it's only one product line that's really good besides the freeze dried stuff. Tetra has lost their good reputation they had for decades thanks to several things.
Artemia is filling the hatchery, connecting the air hose and leave it until the nauplia hatched. 5 min of work. Cyclops and Daphnia are easier: Added a starter population to a small 10 liter tank and they started reproducing. Only have to net out some of them and they are immediately ready.
10€ I meant. Should be about 15 US$ right now. I buy one small tin of high quality dry foods each quarter year and two blister packs of frozen food. I don't need much more for the livestock I have right now.
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When I collect the hatched BBS, there is about enough to cover the bottom of the little cup. There might be a few hundred of them though, since they are so small. It seems like one meal for 80 fry, they would each get 3 or 4? Even the fry are so small that if I put all 80 of them in that little cup they wouldn't even begin to fill it up.
Ben Rhau
Apisto Club
- Messages
- 568
- Location
- San Francisco
Just try feeding it to them and see how much they eat in a 10-min period. That will be your answer. Also, if you collect once and replace the sieve, newly hatched shrimp will keep swimming to the center, so you can keep harvesting until that stops.
How long are you waiting for the BBS to hatch? The way I did it is after about 16 hours I would take what has hatched into the net (the little thing in the middle that you lift out) and use an eye dropper and suck up a bunch and squirt it into the middle of the fry. I would then 3 hours later have more that had hatched from the same set and feed those and continue. After about 24-36 hours all of them had hatched and after 48 hours i would clean the dish and hatch a new set. The rate of hatch is partly determined by the amount of heat you apply to the hatcher - i just used a 40 watt light bulb.
