Breeding Macmasteri Gold with Normal Macmasteri?

[DiGiT]

Hey All,

I've got a "lonely" male Macmasteri Gold after he either killed his mate or she died from me moving house (two days before she died, everyone else survived the move well). I've been trying to find another female Macmasteri Gold but with very little luck, but there are normal Macmasteri available. I'm wondering whether I can (should??) breed the two forms? and if I do what will the resulting fry be like?

Thanks all

 

[Ben Rhau]

They are the same species, so they will certainly breed. Whether you "should" depends on what you want. The Gold line is in high demand, and your crosses likely won't look exactly like Golds. So you may or may not be able to place them, depending on what they look like. From a health standpoint, it is definitely better to have more genetic variation. That said, the genes that govern the phenotype aren't isolated or known, so the resulting offspring will likely have some combination of the physical traits of the parents, and the distribution of those traits will likely not be homogenous.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

and if I do what will the resulting fry be like?

That said, the genes that govern the phenotype aren't isolated or known, so the resulting offspring will likely have some combination of the physical traits of the parents, and the distribution of those traits will likely not be homogenous.

My guess would be that the xanthic gene is recessive, so the F1 generation are all likely to end up as heterozygous, but with the "wild" type phenotype. "Wild" is a bit of a stretch because the A. macmasteri for sale are a line bred red form.

cheers Darrel

 

[DiGiT]

From a health standpoint, it is definitely better to have more genetic variation. That said, the genes that govern the phenotype aren't isolated or known, so the resulting offspring will likely have some combination of the physical traits of the parents, and the distribution of those traits will likely not be homogenous.

My guess would be that the xanthic gene is recessive, so the F1 generation are all likely to end up as heterozygous, but with the "wild" type phenotype. "Wild" is a bit of a stretch because the A. macmasteri for sale are a line bred red form.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for the replies guys, sounds like an interesting experiment, if the xanthic gene is recessive (I'd expect so) then if I cross the first gen with the gold father, I might get a 50/50 gold-normal ratio. But would that inbreeding negate any (if any??) Health benefits from outbreeding?

If I can find really red Macmasteri here in Australia maybe it'll help our Macmasteri Gold, which are damn pale compared to the Czech bred ones.

 

[Ben Rhau]

if the xanthic gene is recessive (I'd expect so)

Do we know it's a single gene? I guess it could be deduced from this type of outcome.

But would that inbreeding negate any (if any??) Health benefits from outbreeding?

Not completely. Aquarium strains tend to be inbred for multiple generations, so adding variation to begin with would definitely be more helpful than continuing to inbreed the line. You're also introducing variation beyond the xanthic gene.

If I can find really red Macmasteri here in Australia maybe it'll help our Macmasteri Gold, which are damn pale compared to the Czech bred ones.

The US bred Gold strains are also pale, and I'm not certain it has 100% to do with genetics. The expression of those colors can also be heavily affected by diet. We also know some Czech breeders treat the fish to look optimal before shipping. Do we know, for example, that subsequent generations of the Czech form are also more red?

 

[Mike Wise]

There are several color forms in the wild, one of them is a pale yellow form. Maybe the golds started with them???

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

There are several color forms in the wild, one of them is a pale yellow form. Maybe the golds started with them???

I did wonder about the Gold Form being "blond", rather than a single gene mutation. Not a great help, but I know that in European Badgers (Meles meles) the "ginger" (Erythristic) form is a single gene mutation.

We also know some Czech breeders treat the fish to look optimal before shipping.

You can dramatically improve the red fin colour in Apistogramma sp. by feeding them a <"diet rich in carotenoids">.

cheers Darrel