Are most (all?) cave dwellers female of polygamous species ?

[anewbie]

So some dwarf cichild prefer cave or similar crevice to defend and other prefer more open areas and i was speculating or wondering if there is a pattern as to which species prefer 'caves' and my first though that it is mostly the female of polygamous species that are going to want caves while pair forming species (apisto or otherwise) are less interested in 'caves' since both parents tend to defend the entire area while the female is hiding from other female and the male when tending eggs/frys.
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This is as i said speculation but i was curious if someone with more expertise knowledge could comment if there is a predicatable pattern as to whether a particular species is going to be 'cave' oriented.

 

[MacZ]

So you theorise polygamy is supporting cave spawning?

Then the whole genus of Dicrossus is the counter example. The male is not involved in brood care and they are open spawners. Very open in contrast to Mikrogeophagus for example.
On the other hand you have serial monogamous species like A. panduro that are cave spawners, but also such that are open spawners like the genus Mikrogeophagus.

I think the line open/cave spawner is along genus lines, not along sexual behaviour lines.

BUT: It is still possible that this applies to Apistogramma alone, then polygamy is the original way of the genus, and monogamous species like from the A. nijsseni-complex may have developed monogamy again coming form polygamous ancestors.

Problem is we can only speculate. But this is how it presents to me.

 

[Mazan]

It is an interesting thought. However, there are many other cichlids that are monogamous but breed in caves - eg Amatitlania, Cryptoheros, the pike cichlids (that aren't all Crenicichla now), maybe Guianacara? (conflicting reports on these as to whether they are monogamous or polygynous). There is some evidence in some Central American cichlids that in so called monogamous species males will sometimes desert the female when she has fry and mate again with another female. This likely depends on the amount of predation they experience, the male staying with the female throughout the brood care period if predation leaves are high.

 

[MacZ]

Amatitlania

I have seen those always spawn in the open in pits in the substrate.

 

[Mazan]

I have seen those always spawn in the open in pits in the substrate.

Well yes, there is a degree of variability that may depend on various factors. In Belize for example Cryptoheros spilurus usually spawned in quite deep holes in the bank (often old kingfisher nests) but sometimes just dug pits in the substrate. And I was thinking of convict cichlids, they usually make caves by digging out under rocks.

 

[MacZ]

And I was thinking of convict cichlids

Same, hence my bewilderment.

 

[Mazan]

Well again, maybe different strategies depending on the environment?

 

[MacZ]

Probably!

 

[Mike Wise]

I'm trying to think of an apisto species that does not prefer to hide its eggs. Even sand-dwelling species like A. diplotaenia and A. sammophila use the undersides of leaves for spawning sites.

 

[anewbie]

My a. pucallpaensis use the open area of a piece of driftwood (ok ok not really an apistogramma); i guess she didn't think the ember were a threat. My hongsloi also use either sponge filter or top side of drift wood - there were caves but they ignored them - but no leaves - of course the hongsloi were domestic so maybe they were just confused. My male a. pucallpaensis does like to hide under the driftwood or the horizontal heater.

 

[Mike Wise]

Both the species that you mention typically hide their eggs, so you have an anomaly in your tanks for some reason. I did have A. wapisana spawn in the open, in a tank corner. This was because they were in a bare quarantine/grow-out tank. They were small ~1"/2.5 cm. Nothing was known about them at the time. They didn't even have a common name. I thought that they were juveniles - wrong! Once in a breeding tank, they hid their eggs like other apistos typically do.

 

[anewbie]

Both the species that you mention typically hide their eggs, so you have an anomaly in your tanks for some reason. I did have A. wapisana spawn in the open, in a tank corner. This was because they were in a bare quarantine/grow-out tank. They were small ~1"/2.5 cm. Nothing was known about them at the time. They didn't even have a common name. I thought that they were juveniles - wrong! Once in a breeding tank, they hid their eggs like other apistos typically do.

This is the 10 which has the pucallpaensis; it is possible she moved the wrigglers there and i didn't see the actual eggs but i'm pretty sure they were eggs - two pictures one from the front and one from the side - the hongsloi were in a 29 the scaping for them was also pretty dense plants and it had a few coconut caves along with some various pieces of drift wood.

Of course neither of these habitats are anything like they would be in the wild (i think) there is no leaf litter - though when the a. pucallpaensis were spawning i did have a lot of tannis and leaf litter but i stopped doing that to focus more on the plants - i have an old picture with tannis as the third picture:

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Hum. no third picture - i'm sure i have a good one on my phone but not sure it would help much. The drift wood is actually fairly large for a 10 - the marino moss ball in the very back has leched onto it and completely covered it as well as a portion of the left sponge filter - the right sponge filter way back there seems immune to the moss hung.

 

[Mike Wise]

Just a guess, but is it possible that the females dug small pits below the driftwood and spawned there out of your sight?

 

[anewbie]

Just a guess, but is it possible that the females dug small pits below the driftwood and spawned there out of your sight?

It is possible but I wouldn't be able to confirm such. She died after about 8 egg laying - my guess is she was 18 months to 24 months old which seems kind of young. I have about 15 to 20 young ones of various sizes and the original male which is older than her. The male is beginning to show some signs of old age but nothing serious; i have at least 4 young males not sure about females and i want to buy a couple of more to mix up genetics with my younger group.