Apisto Community?

[AdamT]

Hey, folks, nice forum you got here, I thought I'd give it a try. <g>

I've read on the krib about someone who set up a super dense community of apistos. (The Krib -> apistogramma and dwarves -> "What tank size (and fish density) is appropriate?" -> at the end) The guy talks about having 15 apisto agassizi in a 20ga. And he talks about someone with 150 apisto cauc. in a 55ga!

Well, I've got some apisto trifasciata (m-f-f in a 30ga) that are breeding slowly, but regularly. And I've got this 55ga that I'm just getting set up. So I'm wondering if any of you have tried housing many apistos together, and how one might have long term success with such a tank. I'm trying to grow in a lush / complex lower level of growth (stem plants, anubias, crypts) but the tank is new and that's still filling out. I got 4 clay flowerpots in there at the moment, and I thought about having way more, or covering the bottom of the tank with PVC chunks, but I'd like to have room for plants.

I'd like to work up a 20-ish fish community in this 55 from which I could select breeding pairs, sell some to the LFS, and maybe even have the odd fish manage to grow up from fry. Any thoughts on strategies to accomplish this?

Adam T

 

[mooman]

I'm far from knowledgable on this topic, but will give my 2 cents. I don't think aggression would be a problem since you would be doing something of a controlled overstocking situation (like people do with mbuna). I see it in dealer tanks with apistos all the time. I imagine this situation even occurs in the wild when apisto populations are caught in ever shrinking pools during the dry season.

In this situation however i would not expect to see males or females breeding or coloring up much at all. The fish would be under a constant low grade stress, which would probably cause problems in the long run. If a disease did break out due to stress, then the result (with such a dense population) would be nothing less than an epidemic. You could probably grow out a bunch of babies, but once they became sexually mature the pop would have to be thinned. You would certainly end up with alot more territory holding males than you otherwise would if you bought them as adults. I don't think you could get anywhere near the numbers you're shooting for however. I'm interested to see how it turns out though. Keep us posted.

 

[Mike Wise]

Adam, like mooman says, dense populations do occur in the wild. It can be immitated in large tanks, like your 55. You would have to aquascape it like in the wild, however, where territories are not just on the bottom, but at many levels higher up. This means having vertical layers of caves. In the wild this is provided by deep layers of leaf litter and piles of brush. It is unlikely that it can be done in a planted tank where there is basically only one surface available (the bottom). For breeders interested in trying to breed in a colony system, I suggest stacking layers of plastic pipes at different levels throughout the breeding tank to simulate layers of leaf litter.

 

[Zapisto]

i personnaly breed a colony of A. Staeki with a system similar as mike mention.
in my case thiis tank 33g was a tank of wood with no special order.
i put the wood in the tank until i cannot put anymore.
i just put different piece/size/forms of wood and let them sink
where they sink , is where i left them there.
after i put java fern and javamoss in the same way i put the wood.et

the tank take 3 month or more to get stable.
the tank was visible by the four side for clear reason, i want to see everything on all side.
at a point the javamoss and java fern make a very cool looking but no way to be a show tank

i put five juvie A. staecki in
ancistrus and ottocatfish
and let them live.

at one point i count about 40 fish in with fry everywhere
some figth but not so much

water change was a nigthmare so i decide to change the filtration with a DIY sort of wet and dry.
the water get suck at the bottom of the tank by an aquaclear 500 and at the exit i put a surface where the water have to pass before comeback to the tank like a river, with small rock and javamoss

i let this tank run like that without water change for 2 years (only add pure R/O) until the ac500 died on me.
just want to share my experience.

 

[denilson59]

i personnaly breed a colony of A. Staeki with a system similar as mike mention.
in my case thiis tank 33g was a tank of wood with no special order.
i put the wood in the tank until i cannot put anymore.
i just put different piece/size/forms of wood and let them sink
where they sink , is where i left them there.
after i put java fern and javamoss in the same way i put the wood.et

the tank take 3 month or more to get stable.
the tank was visible by the four side for clear reason, i want to see everything on all side.
at a point the javamoss and java fern make a very cool looking but no way to be a show tank

i put five juvie A. staecki in
ancistrus and ottocatfish
and let them live.

at one point i count about 40 fish in with fry everywhere
some figth but not so much

water change was a nigthmare so i decide to change the filtration with a DIY sort of wet and dry.
the water get suck at the bottom of the tank by an aquaclear 500 and at the exit i put a surface where the water have to pass before comeback to the tank like a river, with small rock and javamoss

i let this tank run like that without water change for 2 years (only add pure R/O) until the ac500 died on me.
just want to share my experience.

very very interesting !!!do you have pictures?

 

[Zapisto]

very very interesting !!!do you have pictures?

unfortunetly no
firts because it was not what i can call a show tank
and second i am not a very friend of pics , mean i am very bad to take pics

but people on this forum already see this tank

 

[AdamT]

Hmm, thank you all for the input.

Perhaps filling the 55 half full with wood, then planting anubias, java ferns, and the like on top of that would be nice to look at and support a fair population. I think I would probably avoid the java moss, as I expect it would overgrow and limit visability. It would suck to try and get any fish out! But they'd probably have to come to the surface at feeding time, maybe they could be nabbed then.

How many apistos has anyone kept in a 55?

How much plastic pipe do you think would be needed to build a colony?

My LFS sells wood by the pound - filling a 55 halfway up with wood would be expensive! Any ideas on how to accomplish this sort of thing with a minimal monitary outlay?

 

[Mike Wise]

I think I would probably avoid the java moss, as I expect it would overgrow and limit visability.

It is just this inability of the fish to see each other that makes dense populations possible. Hiding places are absolutely necessary.